Introducing A New Prototype—Product Variations (A Better Implementation Of Product Option Combinations)

General News and Announcements
41

Just don't upload the images for variations and you main product images will be used.

I have an image for blue shirt, red shirt, and green shirt. I still have to upload the image for blue shirt 5 times for all the sizes. And then the same for red and green.

This means I have to upload 15 images when there are really only 3 different images (red, green, and blue).

Don't you see my point?

42

Suggestion to fix some critical sources of confusion with products that have Product Variations.

1. The General Tab should not show editable fields for [Pricing / inventory] and [Availability] sections when these fields are overridden by the same fields of each PV. Having them showing is very confusing and user un-freindly

2. Along the same lines as 1. All other settings made redundant by the same overriding setting in each PV should be unavailable to the other product Tabs.

EG: [Shipping Properties] [Quantity discounts] [Subscribers] [Features]

3. However, what if a product has PVs. Admins should not have to spend hours setting the same [Quantity discounts] settings for each PV individually.

What is needed is for the Products MAIN settings to be used if those same setting of a PV are unset. This way, the MAI product settings are treated as the DEFAULT settings, only overridden by non-blank PV settings.

4. (minor) Since one PV must be selected as default, there really isnt a need for the products main image to be set. So, in admin, the product list and product edit page should show the image of the default PV in cases where no main image is defined.

5. Supplier setting for each PV. Again, this should not replace the General setting, but override it if set.

One more very important thing. Without malice or prejudice.

PLEASE give us all an ETA as to when the Product Variations functionality will be finalized and out of Beta.

This has dragged on for too long. It has been more than a year since "Cs-Cart 4.6.1 With Product Variations" was announced!

Q1. What is the expected ETA for Product Variations functionality will be finalized and out of Beta.

As I understand it, the PV addon must be completed as a prerequisite to fixing / updating the eBay Sync addon.

Q2. Is my understanding of this correct.?

Q3. What is the expected ETA for eBay Sync addon will be finally updated?

Product Variations functionality and a fully functional EBay Sync are of utmost importance to our business and thus our decision as to which eCommece software we will use moving forward. I know of other csc license holders that have given up waiting and charged platforms for these reasons.

43

Actually, It would be interesting to set up a Crowd Funding Project to pay a team of Simtec programmers get this finished.

Time is money

44

One more very important thing. Without malice or prejudice.

PLEASE give us all an ETA as to when the Product Variations functionality will be finalized and out of Beta.

This has dragged on for too long. It has been more than a year since "Cs-Cart 4.6.1 With Product Variations" was announced!

Q1. What is the expected ETA for Product Variations functionality will be finalized and out of Beta.

As I understand it, the PV addon must be completed as a prerequisite to fixing / updating the eBay Sync addon.

Q2. Is my understanding of this correct.?

Q3. What is the expected ETA for eBay Sync addon will be finally updated?

Product Variations functionality and a fully functional EBay Sync are of utmost importance to our business and thus our decision as to which eCommece software we will use moving forward. I know of other csc license holders that have given up waiting and charged platforms for these reasons.

CS has come a long way over the past few years with the improvement of product options but I agree, starting something like this over a year ago and not getting it completed in an efficient way is frustrating Ive been holding off upgrades for this.

Not only does it help for the customer end but once completed it will help massively to link to suppliers databases for stock/quantity updates etc. Which in turn would see CS as a more valuable web platform front than some competitors.

As for crowd funding Id be interested in cost and timescale to get this finished as long as it was then integrated fully into the code for future updates etc.

45

I couldn’t agree more.



We need reliable time frame. You should finish what you started, and as far as I can see the product variations add-on improvements are not on the official roadmap.



Many developers refuse to do custom development in regards to product variations while they are still in beta.



On the other hand, store owners cannot plan the integrations with external systems due to the willingness of migrating to product variations.



It’s really frustrating.

46

Hello. Although I can’t name any specific date, I can say that we are committed to bringing the Product Variations out of beta (just like any other Beta add-on, and even more so, because we understand the importance of variations).

Yes, it isn’t mentioned on the roadmap (like many other improvements), but only because the roadmap covers the big things we’re working on and planning to implement. Variations, however, are largely complete, and many of our clients (among those who agreed share usage statistics with us) are already using them.

Right now we’re working on filtering by options. We received many requests for this functionality: this topic alone has 3 requests, and there’re also other topics and other communication channels like Help Desk. Filtering by options is the last big change before we can bring variations out of beta.

@remoteone, as for this part:

the PV addon must be completed as a prerequisite to fixing / updating the eBay Sync addon


I couldn’t find where it was mentioned as a definite prerequisite. But yes, completing variations takes priority. I wish I could give any ETAs on Product Variations coming out of beta or the eBay Sync add-on being updated, but unfortunately there isn’t any. I’ll check your suggestions regarding the improvements to Product Variations and either get back to you, or list them as feature requests on our internal tracking system.

47

Suggestion to fix some critical sources of confusion with products that have Product Variations.

1. The General Tab should not show editable fields for [Pricing / inventory] and [Availability] sections when these fields are overridden by the same fields of each PV. Having them showing is very confusing and user un-freindly

2. Along the same lines as 1. All other settings made redundant by the same overriding setting in each PV should be unavailable to the other product Tabs.
EG: [Shipping Properties] [Quantity discounts] [Subscribers] [Features]

3. However, what if a product has PVs. Admins should not have to spend hours setting the same [Quantity discounts] settings for each PV individually.
What is needed is for the Products MAIN settings to be used if those same setting of a PV are unset. This way, the MAI product settings are treated as the DEFAULT settings, only overridden by non-blank PV settings.

4. (minor) Since one PV must be selected as default, there really isnt a need for the products main image to be set. So, in admin, the product list and product edit page should show the image of the default PV in cases where no main image is defined.

5. Supplier setting for each PV. Again, this should not replace the General setting, but override it if set.


1, 2. This data is used by default for when new variations are generated. E.g. if you delete a variation on the demo, change the parent product data (such as price), and re-create the variation, it'll use the parent product's data at first (until you change it). Please try this at http://dev.demo.cs-cart.com. I believe it should also address point 3.

4. It does make sense, but it could probably overcomplicate the logic in the admin panel. Basically, every time you open the product list in the admin panel, the system would have to check which variations a product has, and which image to display. It would add extra workload to the server and unnecessarily slow down the product list for (as far as I understand) little gain.

5. I'll list it as a feature request. But first, could you please tell me how you intend to use this functionality, and why it's important for you? I'm asking because the roadmap contains "Multiple warehouses"; if I knew your use case, I'd also know if warehouses would address it.
48

1. 2. I did test the demo before posting. Its not working the way you say.

Some properties are not cloned from the main product to the newly created Variation.

[Shipping Properties] setting are cloned to a new Variation

[Quantity discounts] not cloned

[Features] not cloned
Test by editing the Main settings, then Converting to Configurable product.

Also tested by deleting all variations then creating again.

3. If a product has many PVs. Perhaps there should be a way to select multiple variations and Bulk Edit using an [Edit Selected] function.

Currently, the need to delete each variation one by one and then recreate them all again is a cumbersome and unfriendly method of setting many PVs to the same value. Another reason for having a selection box on each PV, to allow for Delete Selected.

The Main settings are not used if the product is configurable

4. Yes I see your point, How about creating the main thumbnail just once upon save , then deleting it only when the default Variation is deleted. Anyway, its a more minor issue.

5. It is important to us because we may have for example..

Product_A:Black available from Supplier_1 or Supplier_2

Product_A:White available from Supplier_1 only

We have a primitive warehouse addon running on our v2.1.4 store which we can set multiple suppliers for each product combination. We wish to install a "Multiple warehouses" addon (I see there is currently a 3rd party version available) on our v4 store as part of the transition to v4. First we need the PV's and eBay Sync functions working.

49

1. 2. I did test the demo before posting. Its not working the way you say.
Some properties are not cloned from the main product to the newly created Variation.
[Shipping Properties] setting are cloned to a new Variation
[Quantity discounts] not cloned
[Features] not cloned
Test by editing the Main settings, then Converting to Configurable product.
Also tested by deleting all variations then creating again.


My mistake, the behavior is different from tab to tab. The data from the General tab (I tested it on the price) is cloned. Features aren't; but the Quantity Discounts set on the parent product are in fact applied to existing variations. I checked it on the demo by adding a quantity discount for T-Shirt (it's the only default example of variations). I'll look into it further and may list some of this as requested features. But their implementation may depend on how many requests for this functionality we receive. Right now we're focused on filters for product variations, as well as on our roadmap.

3. If a product has many PVs. Perhaps there should be a way to select multiple variations and Bulk Edit using an [Edit Selected] function.
Currently, the need to delete each variation one by one and then recreate them all again is a cumbersome and unfriendly method of setting many PVs to the same value. Another reason for having a selection box on each PV, to allow for Delete Selected.
The Main settings are not used if the product is configurable


There is a way, but it's not on the list of variations on the product page. When you go to Products > Products, you can use the Advanced Search to find variations of a particular product. Please let me know if it helps.

5. It is important to us because we may have for example..
Product_A:Black available from Supplier_1 or Supplier_2
Product_A:White available from Supplier_1 only
We have a primitive warehouse addon running on our v2.1.4 store which we can set multiple suppliers for each product combination. We wish to install a "Multiple warehouses" addon (I see there is currently a 3rd party version available) on our v4 store as part of the transition to v4. First we need the PV's and eBay Sync functions working.


Thank you for the information. I suppose this use case would be better handled by planned warehouse functionality (seeing how by default there can only be one supplier per product in an CS-Cart).
50

1.2.

For [Convert to configurable product] - Quantity Discounts are cloned to the PV's.
For product that is already a configurable product, when [Add variations] - Quantity Discounts are NOT cloned
In both cases, why not give admins the choice to clone or not?

3. It will be better to have [Edit selected] function available to the Product Variation list.
Currently, For Advanced Search to find variations > Edit selected , there is no Quantity Discounts showing in list.

5. Yes, Multiple Warehouse must not be limited to one supplier per product. Best to:
Assign a Supplier to (multiple) Warehouse(s)
Allocate multiple Suppliers to each product.
Also need algorithm to determine which Supplier each product ordered will be fulfilled by.

Supplier for each product needs to be selected based on criteria...

51

With the new variations add-on is it possible to export sales per variation of a product?

Example: we have a lipstick which exists in 10 shades. We need to see see how many products of a certain colour were sold, which is currently impossible with option combinations since it simply adds up all sales, rendering the report useless. I am hoping the new varations methods finally addresses this?

52

One more question: do reward points work with variations now? This is very important for us, without it, we can not make the switch, but we do really need the functionality of variations.

53

One more question: do reward points work with variations now? This is very important for us, without it, we can not make the switch, but we do really need the functionality of variations.


Officially, the Reward points and Product variations (Beta) add-ons haven't been integrated yet. Since the release of variations, I haven't seen any other requests for integration with reward points on the forum (can't say for the Help Desk).

Factually, reward points may work with variations, but in a limited manner. I tested it on the demo, and all the reward point settings can be specified on the parent product level. So, if global point exchange rate is used, the price in points depends on the price of a variation. But if you set fixed prices in points, then the price in points of the parent product will apply to all its variations.

If you're deciding whether or not to move to variations or now, I recommend testing it on the demo: https://demo.cs-cart.com/admin.php?dispatch=products.update&product_id=277. It's the surest way to find out if the functionality suits your needs.
54

With the new variations add-on is it possible to export sales per variation of a product?

Example: we have a lipstick which exists in 10 shades. We need to see see how many products of a certain colour were sold, which is currently impossible with option combinations since it simply adds up all sales, rendering the report useless. I am hoping the new varations methods finally addresses this?


I tested it on the demo (made a few orders with variations and tried to create a sales report), and currently it doesn't seem possible. I think this issue was overlooked, and nobody else requested this functionality. Either way, I'll list this as a requested feature. The implementation may depend on how many people request this functionality.
55

One more question: do reward points work with variations now? This is very important for us, without it, we can not make the switch, but we do really need the functionality of variations.


P.S. Please let me know if the behavior described in this post suits your needs. If not, I'd appreciate the info why it isn't applicable for your use case (so that I could list this functionality as a requested feature).
56

1.2.
For [Convert to configurable product] - Quantity Discounts are cloned to the PV's.
For product that is already a configurable product, when [Add variations] - Quantity Discounts are NOT cloned
In both cases, why not give admins the choice to clone or not?


Converting to a configurable product is a separate use case and is supposed to be used rarely. Option combinations didn't have their own price (it was base product price + option modifiers, and all option combinations were affected by this), so it makes sense to clone quantity discounts into all variations when a simple product is converted to configurable, and option combinations are turned into variations.

But when a product already has variations (some of which might already have their own quantity discounts), things get more complicated. The current mechanism of cloning quantity discounts (they are applied to existing variations once they are specified for the parent products) is not perfect and may be improved in the future. However, filtering products by variations has higher priority at the moment.

P.S.: I also did some more testing with features. I converted 100g Pants on the demo to a configurable product, then created a feature called "Material" with values 1 and 2 (and made it appear on the "Features" tab). If I didn't specify any feature value for a variation, then the value of the parent product was used.

3. It will be better to have [Edit selected] function available to the Product Variation list.
Currently, For Advanced Search to find variations > Edit selected , there is no Quantity Discounts showing in list.


Yes, I think that having "Edit selected" on the list of variations would be convenient. There's also another way (in addition to the one I mentioned previously): when you're on the product page, you can click the gear button and choose Variations. This will open a page where you can select multiple variations and use the "Edit selected" functionality.
57

Still this needs:

The ability to set the configurable product price and have all variations priced the same automatically, - at the moment you have to go through every variation which is just stupid when you have different colours/sizes that may all be the same. There needs to be an option here in the admin and a default setting for each product with either 'individual variation pricing' or 'all the same'.

Also while using variations is great it would be good if product addons/accessories had the following functionality as standard (rather than going through design > layouts - which seems a really odd way of doing this anyway)...

https://www.ecom-lab...lls-add-on.html

...and were also presented in the same manner as product options/variations if linked in the main product (for all variations - As long as the addon product does not have its own options/variants)

Not only is this a much easier way of linking accessories and enabling them to be upsold more effectively but this will also allow us to track stock of these addon options while using variations as they are their own unique product still.

58

Also when cloning a product and renaming it - it does not rename the variations which is frustrating when you have many!

59

OMFG! Still in Beta, gonna run out of sub-versions soon, hope it is finalized before it reaches 5.0!

Addons > Product Variations [Beta]

60
Well, I'm really angry and confused.
Yesterday, on russian forum I've discovered that the cs-cart team is implementing another structure called "Product Groups".
I'm not sure what it means for product variations but I get the feeling that the cs-cart team wants to close the task of filtering product variations in the most convinient and easiest to code way.
Can someone finally give us some clues regarding how it will be implemented and what are you planning?
I don't understand why the dev team chooses to experiment instead of comparing the way it is handled in another platforms?
What we need:
1) Ability to display images of different available variants from the category view (on hoover or other way round). You can also add an option to display variations as a separate products on a cateogry page.
2) Ability to easily import/export product variants as separate records in the database
3) Ability to easily link products
4) Ability to display on the product page other variants and their properties e.g. price, availability, time to ship, barcode etc.
5) Ability to sort and filter products by variants.
Why product groups are the wrong way of achieving this?
#1
We have about 20 000 products (variants included) in our store. The only way to be able to manage the catalog is via ERP system. We've got integration with our system and we export the products via API. If we were to use product groups then we would have to manually link the products again in the admin panel. Moreover the features mechanism on which the groupped products are based is not efficient and would create tons of different features just to link the products.
I'm not the only one that is integrated with the ERP system. Just read the forums. There are many threads about 1C (I've never used it because I'm not from Russia) and different ERP systems.
If you want to have an omni-channel sale the cs-cart should be treated only as one of the sales channels. The structure of the products should be easy to handle.
Solution:
Use a handle for connecting the products. Why should we create parent products which have nothing to do with phisical goods we sell? Why should we use features in order to link the products? A simple code to connect different phisical goods would be enough. E.G. in shopify they use an url as a handle. Figure something out what would suit you.
#2
If you want to link a few products using e.g. feature size it seems easy, right? Unfortunately the feature size may mean different things in different categories. E.g. Size in Apparel category will have values S, M, L, XL and in the Bra category will be like 75B, 80C etc. Choosing many different features with the same name would add an extra complexity for the people who manage product catalog.
#3
Product groups add only the link to the product page for navigation purposes. When you visit a product page you cannot see that the other variants have different prices, different availability etc.
#4
Product groups should mean something different. There should be an ability to create an aggregate page for different products. Some cases:
a) You want to sell furniture set and list all of the products in this set
b) You sell apparel and you want to sell products from the lookbook
Then you group products, display them on one page and give ability to bulk buy (with discount or not) and choosing product variants e.g. you put a checkbox near the products you want to buy.
You will not solve all of the users needs with one magic solution. There are plenty of different vendors and they all have different needs. Just implement a subset of solutions which concentrate on solving specific use cases. Then add other solutions for different vendors. It will save you the hassle and those solutions you will build will be less complex in the use and development.
E.g. different solutions have different types of products:
Type 1: Simple Product.
Type 2: Configurable Product.
Type 3: Virtual Product.
Type 4: Grouped Product.
Type 5: Bundle Product.
Type 6: Downloadable Product.
You try to have all mixed into one structure. In my opinion it will not work.
Correct me if I'm wrong in any of the points above. I think that all of the cs-cart owners want to have finaly good solution for such an important future. We've been watching your efforts to do something way too long. 1,5 years in beta, postponing further development of our stores waiting for the releases, independent developers not able to improve their addons and not knowing how the things will be handled. And in the meantime you focuse your efforts on other things which noone needs or wants (Multivendor Plus).
P.S. The interneational forum seems abandoned and no one is paying attention to it anymore. Please clarify if you've decided that you concentrate your efforts on the russian builds only?
Don't ignore our efforts to point you in a good direction and answer us and other users.
Best regards,
Jacek