I have read in another thread regarding this and wanted to start it as a new topic.
From what ive read, im assuming you have to pay to be a reseller to offer CS cart to your customers…
Therefore I am already in breech, considering 1 customer bought their own licence via recommendation and I purchased one on their behalf (via my admin)
Now obviously I purchased & sold for the same price, no profit whatsoever and their cs account is in my control panel.
Why would I have to pay a reseller fee for this ?
OR !!! Does there reseller package allow you to make a profit,
i.e you get a reseller discount from CS-Cart ? allowing you to sell for the same price they do
Im not in the business of webdesign etc, so it would be an occassional thing, so I dont see why theres an issue, It gets them another customer Right ??
Here is the original message from CS regarding their reseller package on 18 Jan 07;
[quote]1. You will need to sign a reseller agreement and send us a copy via fax.
2. We provide reseller with one free CS-Cart license to build a site where he will resell CS-Cart.
3. Wholesale pricing:
1 additional license - $115
5-9 licenses - $95 per license
10+ licenses - $75 per license
4. Rebranding option is possible in case reseller doesn’t pass CS-Cart sourse files to the end user. E.g. if a reseller provides clients with hosted e-commerce solutions without access to the files.
5. Program entrance fee - $475. It includes 5 CS-Cart licenses.
6. Each additional CS-Cart license is bundled with 15 days of free technical support.[/quote]
Now while this is relatively a good deal it is only a good deal if you actively advertise the service. In my case, while i have a website selling ecommerce services (www.ansuk.com), i do not actively advertise and the current clients i have come via word of mouth.
I was then told on the 19 Jan 07;
[quote] At the time you may purchase extra CS-Cart license at $115 and then request us to move it to a separate account.
This will allow your customer to make use of CS-Cart community forums.
Hope this makes sense.[/quote]
Which is what i have done for the two client i brought over to CS, this is all obviously in my Communications area.
On the 5 March 07 i was then told;
[quote] We highly appreciate your efforts in involving new customers in CS-Cart family.
But CS-CART Software Licence Agreement ([URL=“License Agreement on the Use of CS-Cart”]https://www.cs-cart.com/license.html[/URL]) forbids you reselling CS-Cart at all.[/quote]
I have never resold CS-cart but rather advertised a CS-cart package as an alternative to a CubeCart package. Nowhere in their license agreement does it forbid you from doing this.
The rest of the messages regarding this have got a bit heated between myself and Alex which has resulted in me removing the CS-cart package from my website and advising the two current CS customers that i will no longer be supporting CS.
IMO i think its rediculous and i remember another thread recently stating something along the lines of and Mod/Skin creators being forbidden to sell their Mods/Skins and anything they do make will remain the property of the CS developers.
CS seem to be biting the hand that feeds them by doing this and the reason CubeCart is as successfull as it is is down to the third party Mod/Skin creators like myself enhancing their product to function and look the way the client needs.
I am also unable to post the link to my CubeCart mod store because it is considered competition to the CS product, (sig link removed by Moderators for that reason).
All the time they stick with these rediculous rules i will certainly not support them :roll:
Ok so the deal above is quite a good deal I agree.
I do understand where you are coming from completely. As mentioned, I do not resell CS (as such) but some of my currentl clients have asked for an ecommerce site, 1 in particular I purchased a licence, set up the store and made a few mods to it for them without charging a penny extra other than the cost of the CS licence itself, because it was easier for me to do that way.
I suppose if your planning on hosting / supporting, then the reseller licence is the way to go, but the odd one here and there shouldnt be cause for concern.
My scenario
One of my good customers wanted this cart, Im hosting there website for them, so I setup the domain name , purchased CS from my control panel and set up their store.
So I guess Im in breach of their terms already, now what
Doing it the other way, well… Normally To install, I would untar the file I already have on my server (under root) and install it. but how do I then verify they have actually gone and purchased a licence ? Without asking them to send me all receipts etc…
And for that single reason, it would be easier and safer for me to purchase a licence on their behalf.
Theres no way I intend to do enough to warrant being a reseller !!
Where do I stand with my current breach of your terms or infact, Am I and Why ? and how would you have known without me actually telling you I am, in this post?
I would like to hear an answer from CS on this, I mean they answered a post where I put the wrong info (price for a mod) so they can surely answer this.
As a duly authorized CS-Cart reseller, I think I can clear up some of the questions/issues.
Naturally, I support CS-Cart in having a reseller program that has a fairly steep price to join. The reason companies do this to block people from signing up as a reseller so they can buy the product for their own use at a discount. 99% of the time, these people never even try to sell the product, or they don’t really run a business that sells shopping carts. And if these people do try to sell, they do it at a discount. That makes it very hard on the people who are trying to make a living here to compete. The tried and true way to separate the wheat from the chaff is to require an investment to join the club. People who aren’t really entitled to a discount and aren’t really in the shopping cart business won’t make this big of an investment just to get a lower price on their cart.
What this does for me is prove that CS-Cart is seriously committed to my success as a reseller, another reason why they’re so awesome to work with.
I also appreciate that it’s against the ‘rules’ for an existing customer to buy a 2nd license for resale without being an authorized reseller. If you have someone who wants to buy, please refer them to an authorized dealer or to CS-Cart. I’m willing to pay a referral fee to anyone who sends a sale my way. Just don’t expect me to sell to a first timer for $115. It ain’t gonna happen. CS-Cart is, without question, a huge bargain at $195 for what it does.
The price of the Reseller Package isnt an issue at all, what is an issue is being told thats its ok to sell a CS package and order the license through your CP and then be told afterwards that doing so is a breach of their licensing agreement when infact it is not.
I dont want to be part of the current reseller package because what they are offering is of no use to me. I dont want another license for myself to setup another store to sell their software, CS is not suitable as a cart or CMS for a hosting business and i also have no use for a further few unused licenses that i may put to use if another customer requests a CS package.
The point here is that they told me, as quoted above, that i can buy customer licenses at the discounted rate and move them over if they want forum access, then, after bringing two customers to them they see a money making opportunity and change their mind.
This is not a good way to do business and keep their customers happy in the hope of further sales.
[quote name=‘MikeK’]As a duly authorized CS-Cart reseller, I think I can clear up some of the questions/issues.
Naturally, I support CS-Cart in having a reseller program that has a fairly steep price to join. The reason companies do this to block people from signing up as a reseller so they can buy the product for their own use at a discount. 99% of the time, these people never even try to sell the product, or they don’t really run a business that sells shopping carts. And if these people do try to sell, they do it at a discount. That makes it very hard on the people who are trying to make a living here to compete. The tried and true way to separate the wheat from the chaff is to require an investment to join the club. People who aren’t really entitled to a discount and aren’t really in the shopping cart business won’t make this big of an investment just to get a lower price on their cart.
What this does for me is prove that CS-Cart is seriously committed to my success as a reseller, another reason why they’re so awesome to work with.
I also appreciate that it’s against the ‘rules’ for an existing customer to buy a 2nd license for resale without being an authorized reseller. If you have someone who wants to buy, please refer them to an authorized dealer or to CS-Cart. I’m willing to pay a referral fee to anyone who sends a sale my way. Just don’t expect me to sell to a first timer for $115. It ain’t gonna happen. CS-Cart is, without question, a huge bargain at $195 for what it does.[/quote]
[quote name=‘willow1872’]The price of the Reseller Package isnt an issue at all, what is an issue is being told thats its ok to sell a CS package and order the license through your CP and then be told afterwards that doing so is a breach of their licensing agreement when infact it is not.[/quote] They used to let people do this, before they put a reseller program in place. But now that there is one you are most welcome to join it. If you’re not, I think you will be missing a great opportunity.
[quote]I dont want to be part of the current reseller package because what they are offering is of no use to me. I dont want another license for myself to setup another store to sell their software, CS is not suitable as a cart or CMS for a hosting business and i also have no use for a further few unused licenses that i may put to use if another customer requests a CS package.[/quote]Uh…Ok. I’m a little confused though. You bought a CS-C license for your company. You have no interest in reselling CS-C because it’s not suitable for your hosting service, yet you seem to be upset because you’re selling licenses and you now have to meet the requirements of a formal reseller program? About your comment that CS isn’t suitable as a cart? There’s a bunch of people who would disagree with that. It’s just about the best cart out there, at any price, and I’m more than happy to offer it as the premium cart for my hosting service.
[quote]The point here is that they told me, as quoted above, that i can buy customer licenses at the discounted rate and move them over if they want forum access, then, after bringing two customers to them they see a money making opportunity and change their mind.
This is not a good way to do business and keep their customers happy in the hope of further sales.[/quote]When did you buy these licenses? At one point you could do this, but not anymore. That’s the way it is. There has to be a cutoff date if they’re going to have resellers. If you’re not willing to comply with their reseller terms, that’s OK with them, me, and obviously you as well. I do however, wish they would go ahead and transfer these last few licenses, just to keep people who bought them prior to the license change happy. But it’s not up to me.
[quote name=‘MikeK’]
Uh…Ok. I’m a little confused though. You bought a CS-C license for your company. You have no interest in reselling CS-C because it’s not suitable for your hosting service, yet you seem to be upset because you’re selling licenses and you now have to meet the requirements of a formal reseller program? About your comment that CS isn’t suitable as a cart? There’s a bunch of people who would disagree with that. It’s just about the best cart out there, at any price, and I’m more than happy to offer it as the premium cart for my hosting service.[/quote]
I brought CS for my CubeCart design business which is completely seperate from my hosting business, in fact it was my wife who bought it before she passed away last year and as such i have taken over both businesses. I think you have missunderstood my comment about CS not being suitable for a cart - what i was saying is that it is not suitable for a cart for a hosting business. CS is undoubtedly the best if not one of the best shopping carts available but this is for general businesses, not hosting businesses 
[quote] When did you buy these licenses? At one point you could do this, but not anymore. That’s the way it is. There has to be a cutoff date if they’re going to have resellers. If you’re not willing to comply with their reseller terms, that’s OK with them, me, and obviously you as well. I do however, wish they would go ahead and transfer these last few licenses, just to keep people who bought them prior to the license change happy. But it’s not up to me.[/quote]
These licenses were bought only a few weeks ago. If you read my last posts you will see the dates of the quotes i received from CS support. One was in January and one was a few weeks ago.
I think a Reseller package is a good idea and its something i wish CubeCart would consider but there needs to be benefits to the resellers for doing it. Discounting a few licenses for like $20 off the current license price within your CP is not an incentive in my opinion. Ive been looking at ClickCartPro recently as im no longer supporting CS. These guys offer a Reseller package with the added benefit of displaying a verifiable “Authorised Reseller” banner as well as the standard discount and this is without having to pay out extra for the privilliage of bringing the extra customers.
If CS were to charge like $100 to become an authorised reseller and then give you a banner you could display in which a customer can click on which then verifies that you are who you say you are then that would be great but i see no reason why i or anyone else should have to pay CS nearly $500 to bring them more customers, all for the sake of getting 20 dollars of the license cost.
I followed the instructions they gave to me, i didnt do this all off my own back. They then had the cheek to tell me what i was doing was against their license agreement when infact their license agreement says nothing about it.
My mark up was pretty good and i have would have no problem paying the full license cost for new customers but CS should make our job easier to bring them new customers, not harder by creating a new registration every time we bring in more custom.
Wadda ya talking about? :roll: The discount is allot more than $20, which makes it all the more reasonable for CS-Cart to be a little discriminating as to who they accept as a reseller. I sure appreciate that there isn’t a reseller on every corner. As for the math, 5 licenses @ $95= (5 sites X $195)= $975 (or $500 profit). CS-Cart is letting you make more than they do, and they shoulder the development expense.
I think I understand what you mean by the cart not being suitable for a hosting business. You are correct, it is not a solution for provisioning websites. I highly recommend H-Sphere for that. (www.PSoft.net)
[quote name=‘MikeK’]Wadda ya talking about? :roll: The discount is allot more than $20, which makes it all the more reasonable for CS-Cart to be a little discriminating as to who they accept as a reseller. I sure appreciate that there isn’t a reseller on every corner. As for the math, 5 licenses @ $95= (5 sites X $195)= $975 (or $500 profit). CS-Cart is letting you make more than they do, and they shoulder the development expense. [/quote]
Currently it is $115 to buy a new license but with the reseller package it makes it $95, you do the math
[QUOTE] I think I understand what you mean by the cart not being suitable for a hosting business. You are correct, it is not a solution for provisioning websites. I highly recommend H-Sphere for that. (www.PSoft.net)[/QUOTE]
Thanks, this business has been running for two years already using a very well known hosting cart. My point was that they offer one extra license for you to setup shop to sell their product, i dont want to use CS for my hosting business so that license is useless to me.
You are missing the whole point here, the point is that i followed their instructions for purchasing a new licenses for new customers and then after giving them the custom they change their mind quoting a non existent clause in the Licensing terms :roll:
[quote name=‘willow1872’]Currently it is $115 to buy a new license but with the reseller package it makes it $95, you do the math [/quote]This is exactly what my point is. You’ve got it in your mindset that CS-Cart sells for $115. It sells for $195. Selling it at $115 makes it impossible for resellers to make enough of a profit to make it worth carrying. Thus, the system is working exactly as it should. It’s keeping the people out who think the road to success is found in a razor thin margin. No offense is intended in any way, but if it isn’t in your business model to pay, then you don’t get to play. CS-C is doing the best thing possible to maintain the value of the product, and its relationship with its resellers. It pleases me to no end that people like you, (but not you personally), don’t have an avenue to sell the product. Your inability to sell it at $115 means that I have the ability to sell it at $195. If you have a client needing a cart, I’ll be happy to send you a referral fee for sending them to me. You can sell them everything else and I won’t (knowingly), swipe your customer. In fact, they can pay you and you can pay me, less your cut. I’m easy to work with.
[quote] Thanks, this business has been running for two years already using a very well known hosting cart. My point was that they offer one extra license for you to setup shop to sell their product, i dont want to use CS for my hosting business so that license is useless to me.[/quote]So don’t. I’m not using mine at the moment.
[quote] You are missing the whole point here, the point is that i followed their instructions for purchasing a new licenses for new customers and then after giving them the custom they change their mind quoting a non existent clause in the Licensing terms :roll:[/quote]Like I said, I wish CS-C would clean up these last few issues.
And so I left the forums for 5 hours and I missed a rather good thread.
I’ll keep a simple response and rant after you’ve got the point (please)
I’ve got a simple question…
I friend of mine wishes to use cs-cart. I can purchase a new licence in my own name at $115 and transfer the licence after he has paid the $115 due.
OR
Do I have to purchase it through a reseller? I’m not making any money at all
RANT:
I have been assisting a friend of mine using CubeCart and to say the least he’s spending WAYYY more time looking at my demo site then actually his own. Recently he enquired if it was possible that I was able to purchase a cart license on his behalf (he’s not rich) and later transfer the licence into his name. I am assuming that since I already own two (2) cs-cart licenses it would be no issue to purchase another at USD$115 and transfer it over to him. IT IS A REFERRAL to CS-Cart and I am being paid nothing more then the original cs-cart cost of $115.
Is this allowed and if so can I do it RIGHT now?
First of all, I want it known that I don’t work for CS-Cart, and I don’t speak for them in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM. Everything I’ve said in this thread has been based on my understanding of CS-C’s reseller program, and the dozens of companies I have reseller/channel partner agreements with.
[quote name=‘JesseLeeStringer’]And so I left the forums for 5 hours and I missed a rather good thread.
I’ll keep a simple response and rant after you’ve got the point (please)
I’ve got a simple question…
I friend of mine wishes to use cs-cart. I can purchase a new licence in my own name at $115 and transfer the licence after he has paid the $115 due.
OR
Do I have to purchase it through a reseller? I’m not making any money at all.[/quote]The premise of the program is to provide an avenue in which legitimate resellers can purchase CS-C licenses at a discount and sell them at a profit. First time buyers should still pay full price IMO. The brick wall that you and Willow are running into is there to prevent non-dealers from using a discount (they earned) to pull the rug out from underneath legitimate resellers feet. I appreciate that you want to help your friends, but giving them the software at cost is harmful to resellers. The intent is to circumvent the normal process to give a first time buyer a discount they aren’t entitled to, that neither you or I got when we bought our first license. What other reason could there possibly be? If you had to pay full price, why not them? There are only two ways to get a license, buy it direct from CS-C, or go through an authorized reseller. Resellers have to put up the initial investment, and we pay the prices that are published above. What might not be clear is that in order to get the $95 price, resellers have to buy 5 licenses on the same order. I’ve got licenses in inventory that have been purchased in anticipation of selling at a profit. Jessie indicates he wants to make something on his sales, but also wants to undercut the normal reseller channel by selling at $115. That’s not fair to me. I’m sure he would be crying foul if I started selling licenses at $75 each. Since he has no investment, it’s not likely that he would be purchasing at a lower price than $115 each. So how could he compete? The answer is, he couldn’t. Why are my panties in such a bunch? Because I’ve invested in more than CS-C licenses in order to sell CS-C licenses at a profit. I have to pay for payment gateway development, shipping solutions, website development, advertising, support, and more. After doing all that, should I lose a sale to a user who can buy at $115 and thinks it’s OK to sell at cost? Look me in the eye and tell me that’s fair. :roll: The ONLY thing that will happen is potential customers will begin to think CS-C is only worth $115. It’s a huge bargain at $195, so why would anyone having an interest in reselling want to force the price down and diminish the product?
[quote]RANT:
I have been assisting a friend of mine using CubeCart and to say the least he’s spending WAYYY more time looking at my demo site then actually his own. Recently he enquired if it was possible that I was able to purchase a cart license on his behalf (he’s not rich) and later transfer the licence into his name. I am assuming that since I already own two (2) cs-cart licenses it would be no issue to purchase another at USD$115 and transfer it over to him. IT IS A REFERRAL to CS-Cart and I am being paid nothing more then the original cs-cart cost of $115.
Is this allowed and if so can I do it RIGHT now?[/quote]No, it’s not allowed, nor is it a referral. Arranging for CS-C to sell to someone at $115 when they should be getting $195 isn’t doing them a favor, it’s just diminishing the value of their product. You’re simply using your multi-license discount to give someone else a lower price. Anyone who buys and sells licenses to someone else is by definition a reseller. To become a reseller, you need to make the investment. If you want to help a friend get a license, get in touch with me and I’ll be more than happy to pay you a referral fee. If you want to rebate it back, it’s up to you. PM me and I’ll be happy to work out the details. Otherwise, if you want to become an authorized reseller, it’s really easy, put up $475.
As usual, CS-Cart is offering something that is more than fair. CS-Cart is a bargain at ten times the price, and the initial investment to join their reseller program is just as fair. If you charge the correct price, a $475 investment will return $975, with a $500 net profit.
I’ll have this noted that I do not profit from any dealings with CS-Cart at this time. I have done and still do consulting work on behalf of it’s user base which I can count at least 2 members I’m in weekly contact with.I have started a new establishment: www.CS-Developer.com
This enterprise is for both free and to-profit. Regardless the premises is for users to assist themselves or/then pay for consulting work. I’m making this noted before someone attempts to burn me for dishonesty.
[quote name=‘MikeK’]The premise of the program is to provide an avenue in which legitimate resellers can purchase CS-C licenses at a discount and sell them at a profit. First time buyers should still pay full price IMO. The brick wall that you and Willow are running into is there to prevent non-dealers from using a discount (they earned) to pull the rug out from underneath legitimate resellers feet.[/quote]
I’ll have to ask willow if I’m burning anybody by offering assistance.
Again I’m sure willow runs his own successful enterprise however has been mislead of the altered license agreement. Understandably I would have been rather pissed off if information directed to me, sounded in malice.
Consider that Willow did the right thing by CS-Cart as far as we know
[quote name=‘MikeK’]I appreciate that you want to help your friends, but [COLOR=Red]giving them the software at cost is harmful to resellers.[/COLOR] The intent is to circumvent the normal process to give a first time buyer a discount they aren’t entitled to, that neither you or I got when we bought our first license. What other reason could there possibly be? [COLOR=Red]If you had to pay full price, why not them?[/COLOR] There are only two ways to get a license, buy it direct from CS-C, or go through an authorized reseller. Resellers have to put up the initial investment, and we pay the prices that are published above. What might not be clear is that in order to get the $95 price, resellers have to buy 5 licenses on the same order. I’ve got licenses in inventory that have been purchased in anticipation of selling at a profit. [/quote]
I did pay ‘full price’ however joined prior to 1.3.4 therefore my price was significantly less then it is being sold at the moment.
At no point in time have I said, ‘lets make people lose money’ quite the contrary. I asked if it was legal and next thing I know we’ve got a profit stabbing match on our hands
[quote name=‘MikeK’]
[COLOR=black]Jessie[/COLOR] indicates he wants to make something on his sales, but also wants to undercut the normal reseller channel by selling at $115. That’s not fair to me. I’m sure he would be crying foul if I started selling licenses at $75 each.[/quote]
Quote me, I have never said nor mentioned additional fees. Quick frankly I couldn’t give a **** if it was $1000 I was passing on. I’m not IN YOUR BUSINESS therefore I can’t see your justification of it ‘Not being fair to me’
If I didn’t state this otherwise you would never have known.
I have stated that it has been a friend and in that no fees/billing/invoicing was to be expected. He pays the license fee at $115 which can count being assistance from me on a personal basis. I’m helping a mate:
End of story.
[quote name=‘MikeK’]
[COLOR=Red]To become a reseller,[/COLOR] you need to make the investment. [COLOR=Red]If you want to help a friend get a license, get in touch with me and I’ll be more than happy to pay you a referral fee. If you want to rebate it back, it’s up to you. PM me and I’ll be happy to work out the details. [/COLOR]Otherwise, if you want to become an authorized reseller, it’s really easy, put up $475.[/quote]
You’ve stuck $495 into someone else’s pocket, to MAKE more money. Sure it’s economics and quite frankly anyone living in a democracy expects it.
I don’t want a referral fee as I AINT referring to a 3rd Party EVER.
In too many instances I have been literally rooted and don’t intend on using such services. In all possible points you refer to your own services which by all means conforms to the forum’s rules. I however in all attempts refer people to place and users that I trust.
The difference between Trust and Profit is upto the person to decide.
In essence would you trust a salesperson over your mates prior experience?
I have never stated within the forums other then (cs-developer) that I have intended to profit from my ventures, In fact if you look at the thread entitled 'Does your store get more than 5 sales a week?’ I can expressly admit to the fact that I MAKE LESS then 5 orders a week and so was the first to vote in ‘No’. You can un-anonymize the poll and see my vote clearly. (btw thanks Zyles, opens my eyes to what is really happening in E-Commerce)
[quote name=‘MikeK’]
Since he has no investment, it’s not likely that he would be purchasing at a lower price than $115 each. So how could he compete? The answer is, he couldn’t. Why are my panties in such a bunch? Because I’ve invested in more than CS-C licenses in order to sell CS-C licenses at a profit.
I have to pay for payment gateway development, shipping solutions, website development, advertising, support, and more.
[/quote]
You have to pay your own expenses, why in that should I refer a friend to pay someone else’s development and profit. I’m not an idiot to say you don’t need it cause I know you do but alas he ain’t your customer. Nor at any time has anyone forced you to start-up and pay for all the following business developments. It’s starting to sound like its going down the drain and your doing your best to salvage any sales possible. I state this without malice.
[quote name=‘MikeK’]After doing all that, should I lose a sale to a user who can buy at $115 and thinks it’s OK to sell at cost? Look me in the eye and tell me that’s fair. :roll: The ONLY thing that will happen is potential customers will begin to think CS-C is only worth $115. It’s a huge bargain at $195, so why would anyone having an interest in reselling want to force the price down and diminish the product?[/quote]
I’ll look you in the eye quite directly, I ain’t reselling.
‘Selling’ requires a profit or advantage to take place once the transaction is complete. I recieve nothing for my services and profit nothing apart from a pat on the back and 15 minutes.
What’s one of the best selling structures? “Discounts” :mrgreen: Ping! :mrgreen:
I can’t see why others wouldn’t want to purchase at $195 so don’t see how it’s making life harder for anyone. Obviously CS-Cart ‘loses’ $80 but is bound to have repeat purchases from his own contacts that word-of-internet passes on.
[quote]As usual, CS-Cart is offering something that is more than fair. CS-Cart is a bargain at ten times the price, and the initial investment to join their reseller program is just as fair. If you charge the correct price, a $475 investment will return $975, with a $500 net profit.[/quote]
Again not interested in profiteering.
Jessie, Mate,
I’m not trying to point the finger of blame at you or anyone else. If I’ve offended anyone I truly apologize. I should have paid closer attention to how I was wording things. In all cases, where I make a statement like “it’s hurting me.”, I mean resellers. I especially want to apologize for incorrectly reading what you said. You said " Do I have to purchase it through a reseller? I’m not making any money at all." Somehow I got that twisted around to mean ‘by going through a reseller you’re not making any money at all.’ My bad.
Let me refine some of the other statements I made.
First, I’m on record agreeing that CS-C should allow the transfer of licenses prior to implementing their reseller program. I’m not too bothered if they extend that into the gray area. But I am absolutely opposed to letting the practice continue.
You said " At no point in time have I said, ‘lets make people lose money’.“
I never said you did.
I said: [COLOR=black]“Jessie[/COLOR] indicates he wants to make something on his sales, but also wants to undercut the normal reseller channel by selling at $115. That’s not fair to me. I’m sure he would be crying foul if I started selling licenses at $75 each.”
Of course, this is the part that I misread and I apologize for the error.
You said: Quote me, I have never said nor mentioned additional fees. Quick frankly I couldn’t give a **** if it was $1000 I was passing on. I’m not IN YOUR BUSINESS therefore I can’t see your justification of it ‘Not being fair to me’
If I didn’t state this otherwise you would never have known.
I have stated that it has been a friend and in that no fees/billing/invoicing was to be expected. He pays the license fee at $115 which can count being assistance from me on a personal basis. I’m helping a mate:
End of story.
My reply: When you want to purchase a license, or facilitate a discount based on your price point (as a multi-license holder), with the intent of transferring the license to a third party, friend or otherwise, at a profit or otherwise, you are in the business of selling shopping carts. You are trying to get a new license for a first time user for the same price you pay for your ongoing business. (As a side note, you might recall, I was the one who told you how to find the $115 licenses in the first place.) The only options would be for you to buy the license under your account, but you wouldn’t be able to transfer it. Or go through CS-C or a reseller. That’s not being unfair to you or your friend. It is being fair to every new customer that has to pay full price for their first license. It is being fair to all CS-C resellers, by respecting the investment and commitment we make with CS-C.
A good example is a mfg. that had a scanner that I wanted to carry. I contacted them and got their wholesale prices for the unit. Then I found the scanner on eBay for considerably less than what I could buy it for. I called the company and found out they were the seller. But they said I still had to pay the price they quoted. That ended my dealings with them right there on the spot.
You said: “You’ve stuck $495 into someone else’s pocket, to MAKE more money. Sure it’s economics and quite frankly anyone living in a democracy expects it.”
I gave CS-C $475 in the anticipation that together we can offer a quality product at a reasonable profit to my customers. Every business is dependent on its customers to thrive. However, unless a business is manufacturing 100% of every aspect of its product, they are reliant on relationships with other businesses to survive. The relationship between CS-C and it’s resellers is equally as important as the resellers relationship with CS-C.
You said: " I don’t want a referral fee as I AINT referring to a 3rd Party EVER.
In too many instances I have been literally rooted and don’t intend on using such services. In all possible points you refer to your own services which by all means conforms to the forum’s rules. I however in all attempts refer people to place and users that I trust.”
That’s unfortunate, because you customers might miss out on something important. I refer people all the time. I can’t be all things to all people, but I do keep my ear to the ground. If I can’t help someone they’re usually appreciative if I send them to someone who can. I sincerely hope I haven’t given you any reason to believe I can’t be trusted. I am a business person so I don’t feel I’m doing anything wrong by making enough of a profit to keep the doors open, pay the rent and phone, and maybe have a little left over that I can spend on the grandkids. Making a profit also gives me the ability to do things like offer to host your developer website for free. No strings were attached when I made you that offer, I just wanted to do something for someone that contributes so much to the CS-C community. I may not be able to contribute code, but I can contribute space and bandwidth. You turned the offer down, but it’s always there if you end up needing it.
You said: “You have to pay your own expenses, why in that should I refer a friend to pay someone else’s development and profit. I’m not an idiot to say you don’t need it cause I know you do but alas he ain’t your customer. Nor at any time has anyone forced you to start-up and pay for all the following business developments. It’s starting to sound like its going down the drain and your doing your best to salvage any sales possible. I state this without malice.”
I hope you or anyone else will refer people to my company because I offer products and services they need, at a reasonable price. The reason why I can offer something today is because I used the profits from earlier sales to provide what we offer today. I will use the profits I make today to invest in the products and services we offer in the future.
You are wholly incorrect with your assessment that my business is going down the drain. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. We had a record month last month, and this month looks like it’s going to be even better. I’m not trying to salvage sales, but I am trying to grow my business. Not going to apologize for that either.
You said: “‘Selling’ requires a profit or advantage to take place once the transaction is complete. I recieve nothing for my services and profit nothing apart from a pat on the back and 15 minutes.”
How I wish that were true. Unfortunately, sales aren’t defined by making a profit or advantage. Sometimes, you don’t make a profit at all. Staying in business requires a profit, but that’s much harder to do.
You said: " What’s one of the best selling structures? “Discounts” :mrgreen: Ping! :mrgreen:.
I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. Selling at a discount is a sure fire way to go bankrupt. My Dad used to like telling the story about the young salesman who came to his boss with a sure fire way to increase sales. He says that all they have to do is sell the product for $20. The boss says, “But it costs us $25 to make it. How are we supposed to make a profit by selling it for less than what it costs up to make?” The salesman answered, “Well, I was hoping to make it up in volume.”
Discounts beget deeper discounts. There’s nothing healthy in that. I hope you will learn that.
You said: “Obviously CS-Cart ‘loses’ $80 but is bound to have repeat purchases from his own contacts that word-of-internet passes on.”
I say: Go back and read my Dad’s story.
And lastly, you say: " Again not interested in profiteering."
Well, I have bills to pay, so I am. I don’t have a problem with you not making a profit, if that’s the way you want it, but anyone who invests in becoming a CS-C reseller certainly is. From my perspective, you’re asking CS-C give you special pricing that you can pass along to your friend. This puts you in the same category as a reseller, except you want to do what we do without having to do what we did.
I understand and respect your views MikeK,
No disrespect intended regardless of what was written
I understand your offer to host cs-developer was genuine however I already have the resources to keep it flowing. I’m more independent then most people think and therefore views are usually quite strong and/or direct. My apologies if I came off like ar*ehole.
My attribute to the sale was a once off fee not an eternal discount, obviously it’s not bankable to be selling under overheads and having said that with reason re-selling licences looks to be profitable for both CS and yourself. I on the other hand act as a ‘system developer’ working with the client to work-out what they want. I have next to no interest in re-selling cs-cart for the sole reasons being price fluctuations, controlling licenses and having to contact cs-support at every opportunity.
I’m hoping that cs-cart will post something official soon…
Hello,
Let me state several points about CS-Cart reseller program which, I hope, will clarify most of the points discussing above.
- Reseller program is still under development and detailed information will be posted on the official CS-Cart website soon.
- License CANNOT be transferred(resold) to another owner(Help Desk account) if you are not an authorized CS-Cart reseller. See p.2.2 of CS-Cart license Agreement - [URL=“License Agreement on the Use of CS-Cart”]http://cs-cart.com/license.html[/URL]
- At the moment a regular CS-Cart user can purchase additional CS-Cart license at $115 only. No bulk purchase discounts are available.
- Resellers can purchase CS-Cart licenses in bulk at the following pricing:
1-4 licenses - $115
5-9 licenses - $95
10-24 licenses - $85
25+ licenses - $75
- Each additional CS-Cart license purchased at the discounted price is bundled with 15 days of free technical support period.
- Most probably, price for additional CS-Cart license will be increased soon for regular users.
More details to come soon.
Thank you.
Been away for a day as my ISP was down but its great to see an active debate on this.
MikeK - you are completely missing my point here mate…
Vladimir Kalynyak told me on the 19 Jan 2007:
[quote] At the time you may purchase extra CS-Cart license at $115 and then request us to move it to a separate account.
This will allow your customer to make use of CS-Cart community forums.[/quote]
Following those instructions is what i did for the two customers i brought to CS.
Alex Vinokurov then told me on the 3 May 2007
[quote]
We highly appreciate your efforts in involving new customers in CS-Cart family.
But CS-CART Software Licence Agreement ([URL=“License Agreement on the Use of CS-Cart”]https://www.cs-cart.com/license.html[/URL]) forbids you reselling CS-Cart at all. If you sell CS-Cart, why is there “Powered by AnsUK Ecommerce Solutions” at the bottom of your software installations?[/quote]
That statement is what has got me pissed here. It is not only in contradiction to what Vladimir told me to do and nowhere in the current license agreement is / was that covered and trying to quote a non-existent clause in their license agreements pissed me off further and my response was that they need to read what their license agreement entails before they start quoting it :mad:
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MikeK said:
[quote]This is exactly what my point is. You’ve got it in your mindset that CS-Cart sells for $115. It sells for $195. Selling it at $115 makes it impossible for resellers to make enough of a profit to make it worth carrying[/quote]
The fact is that i can gain an extra license and give it to a client for only $115 (please read Vladimir’s quote above), so what should i buy 5 licenses for $475 for the sake of saving a further $20? Thats just mad for me to do because i dont want to sit on 5 licenses that may never get sold and as such MikeK, after paying his $475 will still make an extra profit of $20 over the profit i make for purchasing CS at $115.
JesseSpringer said:
[quote] I’ll have to ask willow if I’m burning anybody by offering assistance.
Again I’m sure willow runs his own successful enterprise however has been mislead of the altered license agreement. Understandably I would have been rather pissed off if information directed to me, sounded in malice.
Consider that Willow did the right thing by CS-Cart as far as we know
[/quote]
Exactly Jesse! The profit i make for selling an ecommerce package which includes as CS license, CS installation and configuration, Free domain name and hosting on my servers is neither here nor there. The fact was and still is that i have followed the instructions of CS Staff
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If this is how CS wish to run their business then that is entirely their choice however i do not wish to fork out $475 in order to get a further $20 off the price i can currently pay to purchase a new license. As ive already said, my business is not currently actively advertised so i would be sitting on the 5 licenses that ive previously bought by ‘officially’ joining the reseller group.
To conclude then, as my point has once again been missed:
I followed the instructions given to me by CS Staff. After following those instructions and bringing them two new customers i am then told that i am currently breaking their license agreement and must join the Reseller group - THIS is why i was pissed!
@MikeK - no offence was taken at all mate and certainly none was implied or intended by me 
Theres nothing like a great debate 
[quote name=‘willow1872’]
JesseSpringer said:
[/quote]
People will soon start substituting the 'ss’for ‘rr’ then we’ll have a real show 
[quote name=‘JesseLeeStringer’]People will soon start substituting the 'ss’for ‘rr’ then we’ll have a real show :D[/quote]
LMFAO!!!
Current working regulations for CS-Cart licensing were listed above.
===
[quote name=‘willow1872’]It is not only in contradiction to what Vladimir told me to do and nowhere in the current license agreement is / was that covered and trying to quote a non-existent clause in their license agreements…[/quote]
[URL=“License Agreement on the Use of CS-Cart”]http://cs-cart.com/license.html[/URL]
P.2.2 Read carefully please.
[quote]2.2 Restrictions. The Software may be used on one website/computer owned by you. You agree that you will not assign, sublicense, transfer, pledge, lease, rent, or share your rights under this License Agreement.
[/quote]
Earlier, the transfer of an additional license to a new client and to a separate Help Desk account was available for all CS-Cart users on the corresponding request in Help Desk system.
At the present moment due to the development of CS-Cart reseller program only those CS-Cart users who joined our reseller program and signed the proper agreement have this ability.
–
Thank you