I was reading through the license agreement for once and this part bothered me:
[quote]
THIS CS-CART SHOP END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR COMPANY (COLLECTIVELY, “YOU”) AND CS-CART.COM (HEREINAFTER REFERRED TO AS “THE AUTHOR”)
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[quote]
2.1 Ownership. The Software and all modifications or enhancements to, or derivative works based on the Software, whether created by the Author or you, and all copyrights, patents, trade secrets, trademarks and other intellectual property rights protecting or pertaining to any aspect of the Software or any such modification, enhancement or derivative work are and shall remain the sole and exclusive property of the Author.
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Am I reading this correctly in plain english. That any mods I make are property of CS-Cart? Is that even legal to do? I can understand that if I pay for a mod that CS-Cart creates for me it is included in the next version.
But a mod that I put my spare time and endless manhours into for the sake of improving the product. Which is actually my copyright as an author. Not the software that I am using, or the company I bought it from.
If this was to be the case I am reluctant to be releasing any more upcoming mods, especially if CS-Cart can claim it as theirs and not give the authors any benefits for creating it. I don’t want to be selfish, because I often do share what I create if it’s useful. But, if contribution means zilch. Why contribute and not use all the advantage yourself, especially when you get no monetary value or recognition for the huge amount of work involved?
Please tell me it isn’t so and that I am not understanding the legal agreement. Otherwise it really bothers me.
Same agreement as Xcart. and as you can see from X mod developers, its not really a problem.
The only time i’ve ever seen it a problem is when a developer was using a stolen license to develop on and got caught. They banned him and “took over” his mods…They didnt sell them, but basically said all his mods were illegal to buy.
I’m not sure why this is in there but haven’t ever seen it enforced so that the company would screw its community, dont bite the hand that feeds you.
So while it does exist, I dont put much merit into it, in terms of all of us releasing mods.
Well unfortunatly I also do not like the sound of it, however anything created by myself is protected under my intellectual copyright.
I think what it is stating is that no matter how much you modify, CS-Cart is still copyright to them !!! however if we create modules as “addons” rather than modifications then they can not claim copyright as their own as they are NOT the authors of such !
Thats how I see it anyway, and I agree… up until now I have only been modifiying but the amount of work me and zyles have put into a “module” which is still un-released, remains our sole property self coded by is, which if this licence agreement states that CS hold the copyright to it, then im afraid they will never see it !
[quote name=‘S-Combs’]If your modification contains actual cs-cart code then it is in part legally owned by them.[/QUOTE]
So where to draw the line?
The mods are changes and sometimes a bulk of code made by an author. They can however use functions that is made by CS-Cart. But still the code that creates or changes functionality is made by an author and not CS-Cart.
If they were to include any code into core that I contribute without my explicit permission I’d take offense. Even if it’s freely shared on the forum. They charge for their mods and if they would like to use someone elses they should do the same.
I agree with most of the arguments however it does’nt really matter unless you plan on selling mods. We (modders) spend tons of time to make mods and we should get some form of compensation for them however I’ve found most people would rather sit back and wait for us to release stuff for free at our expense. We can’t sell our mods because it contains bits and pieces of CS code but I do beleive we can accept donations which is another topic of discussion, besides this does’nt need to turn into another X-craap where we have dirtbags like boomboombap and fireballs charging money for easily coded mods we have for FREE here because members like us took the time to put the mods together for the benefit of all. We have a ton of other mods completed that may never be released because of this very reason…we can’t spend weeks on end making multiple mods only to be released for free at our own companies expense, some mods like Newest/Testimonials we have let go, others that have been more time consuming and costly to build will stay in house probably forever, however I am open to trading/swapping mods ect…don’t fret because the wheels of the rumor mill are churning vigorously…
[quote name=‘snorocket’]others that have been more time consuming and costly to build will stay in house probably forever, however I am open to trading/swapping mods ect…don’t fret because the wheels of the rumor mill are churning vigorously…[/quote]
And that is the problem… CS Cart cant and wont include everything in their cart, altough they try, this is where mods come in… People are individual and have their own ideas, why should an idea I have to improve the cart and one which has been coded in by me go completely un-noticed…
If CS gave a few benefits to mod developers, not sure what yet… then maybe there would be some incentives…
I also sat back last night and thought how we are also saving them a lot of work by answering all their newbie questions on the forum…
They approve the posts and dont answer, we do !!!
( I know this is off topic but in my eyes related)
Its a shame, those with little knowledge of coding / templates etc will just have suffer because I for one will not be releasing a major mod for CS-Cart such as the SEO mod which me and Zyles have worked on, If he wants to release it then so be it, but im going to advise against it due to the time effort and everything else… It may sound selfish, however its CS-Cart who are being selfish by having such an agreement !
I can see a lot of customers turning away from CS cart due to lack of communities, custom mods and themes / templates which frankly nobody will make for free !!! [rant over and out !]
The community will come to a halt and stop growing eventually when nobody offers mods anymore. It’s a BIG different between releasing a small enhancement mod and releasing a huge mod that will MAKE YOU MORE MONEY AND MORE SALES. It costs money to make money. And it costs money to develop these kind of mods on a huge scale.
The only one who benefits from this is CS-Cart, eventually when nobody makes mods anymore they get all the work at any quote they wish so people are forced to use them. Mod devs are direct competition against them.
If I were to sell mods, nothing can stop me, not even the license. The only thing they could do is ban you from the forum and it will end up like another X-Cart community.
I also think it’s a bit low when they approve Unregistered posts and do not answer them, expects us to and do their job. Some questions can only be answered by CS-Cart themselves but they don’t.
[quote name=‘Zyles’]If I were to sell mods, nothing can stop me, not even the license…[/QUOTE]
from what I posted in the other thread and what I understand you can sell mods so as long the code is not copied from any existing cs scripts, if you start from scratch it should be ok…the rumor mill is churning full speed ahead, their are some unbeleivable improvements coming, improvements beyond your wildest dreams…CS listens and CS implements some really exciting and really innovative adons at no additional cost to any of us, you won’t find another company willing to pitch in the shovels to make one of the best carts ever, veering off the subject I think everyone is just getting riled up because their looking forward to a new release possibly…alot of problems stem from people focusing too much on the cart and what they don’t have instead of what they could do…
[quote name=‘snorocket’]from what I posted in the other thread and what I understand you can sell mods so as long the code is not copied from any existing cs scripts, if you start from scratch it should be ok…[/QUOTE]
That doesn’t change a thing. According to the license THEY OWN YOUR CODE. And what is scratch? You can’t use a function they use? None of your mods are from scratch as they use parts of functions CS-Cart authored.
[quote]Cs-Cart and the Dev team have not charged me or anyone else for there mods yet:
Reward Points system
RMA
Gift Certificates
Helpdesk
New FAQ’s for CS-Cart
Reseller Program
Testimonials
Newest Products
Product Configurator
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ummmm…well we have paid cscart US$275 to code a Reward Points/Special Offers mod that is a big improvement on what we currently use. We’ve also paid $350 for further custom work. I think you’ll find that a lot of additions in new releases have been paid for by private business’s who have asked for custom development. I don’t mind as it develops the cart further, I am in business and prepared to pay and I benefit when others also pay for custom development work that is later incorporated into the main cart.
I’m not a programmer and don’t want to be. Happy to pay for professional work to be done, either to cscart or a modder. I don’t have anything bad to say about xcart as it has enabled us to trade online but cscart suits us a lot better. They had a clean canvas to start with and it shows.
Personally I’d like to draw a line between the must have mods that are best built into every cart from the add-ons that are more business specific and not everyone will want.
If it’s a must have mod I’d prefer to see it incorporated into cs cart. The code would then be updated in each new release and should be easier to upgrade. Modders defintiely deserve to be paid for their work . I’m not sure if cscart would buy the code from them for major works/sub-contract or a market could develop for private mod sales.
We have over US$1000 custom mods for xcart - problems arise when code conflicts, the quality of work varies enormously, developers are slow or don’t respond, uncontactable, or disappear (yes that happened), most have so much work they don’t need to be concerned about customer service. There are probably 3 guys who are xcart modders who I consider absolutely top notch with their work and service. I think there are over 10,000 xcarts and only a handful of modders. There are always lots more carts in development. The code becomes bloated, bogged down and damn ugly. I expect the XC and CS developers have seen some pretty horrific code modded and added to their carts. With some mods, you also become more likely to be frozen to a certain release as mods become incompatable with later releases. You don’t get a lifetime licence to the mods like you do with the shopping carts. You normally get 3 months of upgrades after purchase. To upgrade to the latest (unstable) version of xcart I need to purchase brand new licenses for all our current mods and contract out custom mods. To transfer the licence of current version mods costs 25% of the purchase fee. They are in business and I understand but it’s another factor to consider if cs cart goes down this road. I 'm happy to pay cs cart to modify our code - they always reply and quickly to questions, don’t pick and choose their customers, or abandon customers who are not programmers but will pay for the work. They also haven’t been arrogant ****s like some on the xc forums.
Yes CS-Cart does have a lot more to offer than most other carts, hence why we all use it ! or I think we do…
But as mentioned, CS also uses a lot of open source code such as the smarty template system.
They may release great features, but you can never cater for everybodies requirements, one thing thats good for you, may not work for me, again this is where mods come into play !
There is no real form of “from scratch” as scratch, but Im going to hold tight and await my response from CS direct tommorow…
