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Dissatisfaction With Bug Tracker Response Times Rate Topic   - - - - -

 
  • harmsmitsdev
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Posted 26 January 2021 - 06:04 PM #21

You all don't get it, new features and more features is the priority for cs-cart. Their mentality revolves around more and more bells and whistles so they can say our cart is capable of 1,2,3 and a.b.c and also x.y.z. Quality of product, good design decisions is not something they are interested in, and classic example is lite checkout. They tried to reinvent something as critical as checkout and messed it up big time. I am still running old checkout.  

Or really really maybe because writing a proper checkout is just hard and people don't report anything during the *beta* releases of these things. Who ever looks at dev.demo.cs-cart.com and checks if there is an issue or not with the checkout when they update it? They have asked for your thoughts many times already but no-one bothers to check it out, which is a shame really.

 

Of course both are to blame, but not like this. *YOU* want to upgrade without blinking. At least test it before you put it live, backup your database, etc. This is a *completely normal procedure* for any company that updates their software. No company thinks on a friday evening, 'hmm let me just update my main source of income because it got release yesterday'.

 

Nonetheless, CsCart should test their software more, especially with regards to things like order calculation. But the fact remains they can not account for *every* single variable. Even when using fuzzing or something, they will not iron out every bug you might encounter, as it is simply impossible with all variables that you have to account for.


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  • tbirnseth
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Posted 26 January 2021 - 06:24 PM #22

Or really really maybe because writing a proper checkout is just hard and people don't report anything during the *beta* releases of these things. Who ever looks at dev.demo.cs-cart.com and checks if there is an issue or not with the checkout when they update it? They have asked for your thoughts many times already but no-one bothers to check it out, which is a shame really.

 

Of course both are to blame, but not like this. *YOU* want to upgrade without blinking. At least test it before you put it live, backup your database, etc. This is a *completely normal procedure* for any company that updates their software. No company thinks on a friday evening, 'hmm let me just update my main source of income because it got release yesterday'.

 

Nonetheless, CsCart should test their software more, especially with regards to things like order calculation. But the fact remains they can not account for *every* single variable. Even when using fuzzing or something, they will not iron out every bug you might encounter, as it is simply impossible with all variables that you have to account for.

 

Wow, seriously?  You're trying to blame quality issues in design and defect density on the community because they won't take time out of their busy schedules to go test features they were never asked about to begin with?  In every development organization I've ever worked in or managed, Design has been driven by direct input from customers and Quality has always been the responsibility of the company, not the customers.

 

For over a decade in working with cs-cart, I've asked to see specs or designs BEFORE they are committed to and implemented so that appropriate feedback can be provided.  What happens is some product manager (or even worse, an engineer) comes up with an idea they saw on Shopify or some other competitor and they have their development team go implement something. Then they sometimes give a brief demo period (but normally it's just dumped in an upcoming release).  But they then refuse to address fundamental design/workflow issues because they've already committed resources to what they came up with.

 

These are the facts from my direct experience.

I advise my clients to NEVER upgrade to a dot-1 release and to always lag behind the masses on any new upgrade.

 

There are some great things about cs-cart.  Especially for developers and external integrations, but they remain a bit player in the ecommerce market because they refuse to adjust their culture and embrace the huge knowledge base of their user community.

 

<off soapbox>


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  • harmsmitsdev
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Posted 26 January 2021 - 07:40 PM #23

Wow, seriously?  You're trying to blame quality issues in design and defect density on the community because they won't take time out of their busy schedules to go test features they were never asked about to begin with?  In every development organization I've ever worked in or managed, Design has been driven by direct input from customers and Quality has always been the responsibility of the company, not the customers.

 

For over a decade in working with cs-cart, I've asked to see specs or designs BEFORE they are committed to and implemented so that appropriate feedback can be provided.  What happens is some product manager (or even worse, an engineer) comes up with an idea they saw on Shopify or some other competitor and they have their development team go implement something. Then they sometimes give a brief demo period (but normally it's just dumped in an upcoming release).  But they then refuse to address fundamental design/workflow issues because they've already committed resources to what they came up with.

 

These are the facts from my direct experience.

I advise my clients to NEVER upgrade to a dot-1 release and to always lag behind the masses on any new upgrade.

 

There are some great things about cs-cart.  Especially for developers and external integrations, but they remain a bit player in the ecommerce market because they refuse to adjust their culture and embrace the huge knowledge base of their user community.

 

<off soapbox>

 

Partially yes. You say it yourself, the CS-Cart community has a huge knowledge base. But if the knowledge base does not give feedback during beta testing, it will *always* be wrong as you can only test a finite number of things.

 

Of course CS-Cart support should be better and acknowledge these bugs earlier, but judging by the amount of bugs left to fix (and the amount of issues left open), it's just a lot of work.

 

Regarding seeing specs / designs / bugfixes, I review them all the time. I have been actively keeping track of them for at least half a year now (just view their PRs on git) and try to keep up with any bugs I see in the logs. So I honestly don't know how you are unable to do so. Of course you will need to have access to their git repo.


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  • 12ka4
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Posted 26 January 2021 - 10:55 PM #24

Or really really maybe because writing a proper checkout is just hard and people don't report anything during the *beta* releases of these things. Who ever looks at dev.demo.cs-cart.com and checks if there is an issue or not with the checkout when they update it? They have asked for your thoughts many times already but no-one bothers to check it out, which is a shame really.

 

Of course both are to blame, but not like this. *YOU* want to upgrade without blinking. At least test it before you put it live, backup your database, etc. This is a *completely normal procedure* for any company that updates their software. No company thinks on a friday evening, 'hmm let me just update my main source of income because it got release yesterday'.

 

Nonetheless, CsCart should test their software more, especially with regards to things like order calculation. But the fact remains they can not account for *every* single variable. Even when using fuzzing or something, they will not iron out every bug you might encounter, as it is simply impossible with all variables that you have to account for.

 

Dude..You should look at the bug tracker and release column it is reported in and just look at the number of bugs that community identified in 4.12.1. Show that tracker to anyone who works in software development and they will tell you its poor or lack of testing. 

 

Here is the one that is bugging me since day one I am not using this checkout so it does not bother me...but how so many eyes missed that "Deliver To" label is on side and other labels are on the top?  Where is the UX designer or tester?? 

 

https://imgur.com/a/sDPIzdi



 
  • tbirnseth
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Posted 27 January 2021 - 04:25 AM #25

They should involve the community at the concept and design phase.  Beta is way too late in the process and they are highly resistant to any design changes once they've implemented.

 

It's a development driven organization.  More energy is put into new technology (not functional improvement) than into both fixing outstanding issues and to acting on customer requests.

 

Fixing bugs is only a lot of work if:

1) you have defect density that is greater than your development staff's ability to resolve.

2) You get behind and refuse to invest in catching up.

3) Your QA process doesn't include defined workflows and only validates via automation.  Nothing beats monkeys on a keyboard to test a product given scenarios and workflows.


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Commercial addons, payment methods and modifications to meet your business and operations needs.


 
  • 12ka4
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Posted 27 January 2021 - 03:26 PM #26

They should involve the community at the concept and design phase.  Beta is way too late in the process and they are highly resistant to any design changes once they've implemented.

 

It's a development driven organization.  More energy is put into new technology (not functional improvement) than into both fixing outstanding issues and to acting on customer requests.

 

Fixing bugs is only a lot of work if:

1) you have defect density that is greater than your development staff's ability to resolve.

2) You get behind and refuse to invest in catching up.

3) Your QA process doesn't include defined workflows and only validates via automation.  Nothing beats monkeys on a keyboard to test a product given scenarios and workflows.

 

Agree 100%. What is interesting is they have access to good knowledge base (people like you and others) for free but they fail to take advantage of it. You can tell this firm is run by engineers or they haven't taken the time to learn their customers and market.