[PROPOSAL]:Why not CS-CMS?

Hi there fellow members,



I need to say something that is in my mind since 3.x appear, [color=#808080]at the beginning i was a little disappointing with the 960 grid, i was thinking that i will stock into 960grid but is for from the trough, as a developer and i must say that i developed allot of stores and not only stores with cs-cart but i don’t make even one update because is allot of custom code in there and an update will break the skin,[/color] so coming back to my proposal, why don’t cs-cart company try to distribute a [color=#ff0000]FREE cms CS-CMS[/color] for example, is not more than a week off work, just remove, orders, products, categories, promotions and everything is connected to shop, you only need pages and maybe create an addon that can add images to pages and have a pages list and the rest developers will do and so [color=#ff0000]the community will grow[/color].

The developers will love the cms and they will start to develop addons for cms and also for cart and if one of them to have a button [ UPDATE TO CS-Cart - $345 ] and update to that a full shopping cart, here is more work to do depend on how you remove cart at the beginning.



PRO:

• more developers
  
• great stuff to add on shopping cart
  
• bigger community
  
• can be o great competitor to WordPress and Joomla
  
  
  
  CONTRA:
  
• skin has to be compatible from version to version like WordPress and Joomla
  
• maybe is a different target for the company
  
  
  
  I love CS-Cart engine core and hooks sow why don’t increase community with a totality free version, is already/almost very well documented but for the shopping cart i can understand that is a marketing decision, because money are coming from the support and is normal?
  
  
  
  [color=#ff0000]BTW: I love CS-Cart as a developer[/color]
  
  
  
  
  
  Look forward to comments.
  
  
  
  —
  
  Valentin

Cs-cart certainly needs to look at a more robust plugin. A CMS might be a good way to get other developers interested I agree. Perhaps a completely new product and sell a “connector” to turn your website into a shop.



I'll be adding a blog to mysite, but I won't be using a plugin. Horses for courses, I'll be using Wordpress a it's simply the best option and I don't intend giving my customers logins so the is no need to impliment it with the shop.

Good suggestion but personally I would hate to see CS-Cart do this in the foreseeable future, which I believe is required to get the software in a fully working state.



Don't forget the API is coming soon (v3.1.X, I think) which will attract a lot of attention I'd imagine.

[quote name='kickoff3pm' timestamp='1359063326' post='153572']

Cs-cart certainly needs to look at a more robust plugin. A CMS might be a good way to get other developers interested I agree. Perhaps a completely new product and sell a “connector” to turn your website into a shop.



I'll be adding a blog to mysite, but I won't be using a plugin. Horses for courses, I'll be using Wordpress a it's simply the best option and I don't intend giving my customers logins so the is no need to impliment it with the shop.

[/quote]



You think to him as a shop, but structure in admin and privileges can be more than you need for you and you customers. You have menus, pages and a complex part are blocks + for [url=“ZOO - Joomla CCK and Content Builder - YOOtheme”]http://www.yootheme.com/zoo[/url] for ex can be implemented as a [color=#ff0000]FREE ADDON[/color]

WordPress (out of the box) is not sow flexible as cs-cart on the blocks part, joomla is the best as position and structure but joomla is very insecure, my 5 years experience with joomla it was a pain in the ass almost all the clients websites has been hacked, maybe because i don't made update on time, maybe hosting company, who knows?!!??!??!



At the beginning of this year i won't to learn WordPress for my future as developer, after i sow how is done i stop learning because you can create a great design and at the end you are stuck in that design as a customer, as a developer you can create however you pleased



My Battle for CS-CMS has begone [media]Braveheart (3/9) Movie CLIP - They Will Never Take Our Freedom (1995) HD - YouTube



—

Valentin

That would fragment the product and stop the revenue stream as well as add to their support costs.



Every time they go to a site with custom skins (and probably an older version), they have to determine if the issue they've been called to address is custom development related, hosting related or within the cs-cart product. The merchant pays higher support costs the further they are behind in versions as well as the extent of customization. Usually, as soon as they see custom development that was not done by them, they only verify against the demo store and if the problem can't be reproduced, they suggest going back to the standard product.



Cs-cart is excellent at enabling someone to develop custom layout and look and feel and it can be done in a way that will provide a high degree of upgrade independence (or at least very few conflicts). It takes a while to learn and it takes some practice to do it properly. But once mastered, the number of “distributed product changes” is very small.



As with most things, if a merchant is happy with the functionality they have for selling their products, there is no reason EVER to upgrade. The external factors like changes to shipping integration are few and far between.



When a merchant stops upgrading, cs-cart also looses the ever increasing “prolongation fee” to make your site eligible for upgrades. Note that if every licensed merchant signed up for upgrades, then 30% of their revenue would be recurring revenue and they don't have to sell as many new carts. 30% is not insignificant.



I just wish they'd stop changing things to the extent where we loose compatibility with hooks and other extensions. There's no reason to change a hook's name from (for example) 'get_product_data' to 'get_product_data_pre' and 'get_product_data_post'. It breaks everything for no good reason. There's no reason the old hook name couldn't be supported with the arguments it used to use. These are scattered throughout the PHP and template hooks and pisses me off evertime I have to change an addon because now it breaks my addon compatibility with prior and future versions.



But we all have our peeves. CS-cart is far and away the easiest to develop against where one can get new functionality without (usually) breaking what was done before.

[quote name=‘StellarBytes’ timestamp=‘1359064251’ post=‘153576’]

Good suggestion but personally I would hate to see CS-Cart do this in the foreseeable future, which I believe is required to get the software in a fully working state.



Don’t forget the API is coming soon (v3.1.X, I think) which will attract a lot of attention I’d imagine.

[/quote]

[url=“New Admin Panel in CS-Cart 3.1.1 | eCommerce Blog on Running an Online Marketplace”]http://blog.cs-cart.com/2012/11/28/new-admin-panel-in-cs-cart-3-1-1/[/url]

This is the new API

<br />
The new admin panel (along with numerous other new features to be announced later<br />

```<br />
<br />
a facelift of the admin ? <img src="upload://7O47Vg5oKdRIES6TKXXFKIm5Kdf.png" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=":D"><br />
lets don't forget customers, because they must be the only consorn<br />
<br />
---<br />
Valentin

[quote]With the help of the API you will be able to manipulate store data with no need to write an add-on or connect to code hooks. I cannot tell you whether the initial API version will support all store object types, but customers and products will surely be.[/quote]

Ok, maybe not.

[quote]

Ok, maybe not.

[/quote]

Experience over the years implies this is probably true.



No matter what API exists, there is still a need for filters and/or other conversion software to put data in the form needed for the receiver. The whole idea of an API is a STABLE interface (something cs-cart is NOT very good at). You have a stable interface on both the sender and receiver side and glue still needs to be provided for format/provide data for each. And the big thing is error handling. Hopefully cs-cart will get current with using php Exception handler(s).



So time will tell how useful it will be. Hoping for the best, but have not seen any request for input on what's needed so expect normal results.

@tbirnseth

[quote]

Every time they go to a site with custom skins (and probably an older version), they have to determine if the issue they've been called to address is custom development related, hosting related or within the cs-cart product. The merchant pays higher support costs the further they are behind in versions as well as the extent of customization. Usually, as soon as they see custom development that was not done by them, they only verify against the demo store and if the problem can't be reproduced, they suggest going back to the standard product.

[/quote]

You are right, but as member of Support Team you must know the product (CS-Cart) very well, and when you are dealing with an issue you quickly find the reason why something don't work as should be. If you product has bugs Support Team has more work to do

[quote]

Cs-cart is excellent at enabling someone to develop custom layout and look and feel and it can be done in a way that will provide a high degree of upgrade independence (or at least very few conflicts). It takes a while to learn and it takes some practice to do it properly. But once mastered, the number of “distributed product changes” is very small.

[/quote]

More or less, depend of design complexity and extra stuff required.

[quote]

As with most things, if a merchant is happy with the functionality they have for selling their products, there is no reason EVER to upgrade. The external factors like changes to shipping integration are few and far between.



When a merchant stops upgrading, cs-cart also looses the ever increasing “prolongation fee” to make your site eligible for upgrades. Note that if every licensed merchant signed up for upgrades, then 30% of their revenue would be recurring revenue and they don't have to sell as many new carts. 30% is not insignificant.

[/quote]

Is through, but please check the differences, at the end who is going to sell more, out of the box version(left) or custom (right)?

[quote]

I just wish they'd stop changing things to the extent where we loose compatibility with hooks and other extensions. There's no reason to change a hook's name from (for example) 'get_product_data' to 'get_product_data_pre' and 'get_product_data_post'. It breaks everything for no good reason. There's no reason the old hook name couldn't be supported with the arguments it used to use. These are scattered throughout the PHP and template hooks and pisses me off evertime I have to change an addon because now it breaks my addon compatibility with prior and future versions.

[/quote]

Thinks may change over the time, maybe a new programmer, maybe the need, i have used get_product_data_pre for ex

[quote]

But we all have our peeves. CS-cart is far and away the easiest to develop against where one can get new functionality without (usually) breaking what was done before.

[/quote]

I totally agree, on joomla (wordpress i don't use) a component is not compatible with other, if you remove mootools everything out of the box breaking, components, modules, plugins, on cs-cart what addon i buy after install he start working smooth, after i start looking at the code if don't like some stuff, but this is the way at the he done the job as he promise



CS-Cart is easy to learn, easy to develop, all you need to success is creativity and high requests from customers, like for example futures like categories for ex: make / model or brand/subbrand and soon



Everything i do, i do with passion and developing cs-cart and creating custom addons is a great passion for me.



—

Valentin

[quote name='StellarBytes' timestamp='1359068315' post='153588'][quote]With the help of the API you will be able to manipulate store data with no need to write an add-on or connect to code hooks. I cannot tell you whether the initial API version will support all store object types, but customers and products will surely be.[/quote]



Ok, maybe not.

[/quote]



The API is required for the CRM Softwares, this is the only reason i see on CS-Cart and is a future that is needed for Visma CRM, Microsoft Dynamics CRM and so on, magento i think with this win allot o big customers ( http://www.magentoco…ations/crm.html ) but still some one need to make the bridge between CS-Cart and CRM



—

Valentin

CRM, accounting, inventory, POS, helpdesk,… the API should enable us to easily connect to all these.



If cs-cart does not get the API in order I think they will loose a lot of existing and new customers as well as developers because if you ask me, the future is not quickbooks running on a desktop, but a cloud system in which everything is connected.



Concerning the cms: it's an idea, but I think cs-cart should simply focus on making an awesome shopping cart. The api will bring in developers and probably an app store will follow after that. And from that moment on, cs-cart is ready to rule shopping cart world!

[quote name='Flow' timestamp='1359102763' post='153623']

CRM, accounting, inventory, POS, helpdesk,… the API should enable us to easily connect to all these.



If cs-cart does not get the API in order I think they will loose a lot of existing and new customers as well as developers because if you ask me, the future is not quickbooks running on a desktop, but a cloud system in which everything is connected.



Concerning the cms: it's an idea, but I think cs-cart should simply focus on making an awesome shopping cart. The api will bring in developers and probably an app store will follow after that. And from that moment on, cs-cart is ready to rule shopping cart world!

[/quote]



Perfectly true, with the API you can create mobile apps

CS-Cart is already a CMS. The blocks system, template system, accounts, permissions, pages, menu's. This allows developers to add any plugin they need and display it in any way they need through CS-Cart.



I have recently created a portal page and had blocks created for new product reviews, product questions, new videos, new blogs, etc.

CS-Cart already does everything that a CMS needs to do, asides notifications.



Releasing a stripped down version of CS-Cart could indeed bring in a lot of developers.



But then again: CS-Cart did just reduce the number of editions to streamline development and focus on those editions. I think the idea is good but if that means that development of the e-commerce software is slowed down, then that would be bad.

[quote name=‘P-Pharma’]But then again: CS-Cart did just reduce the number of editions to streamline development and focus on those editions. I think the idea is good but if that means that development of the e-commerce software is slowed down, then that would be bad.[/quote]



The development of the e-commerce software is not slowed down, because as you say it is already a CMS

I was thinking like a way to attract more developments, increase community and be a powerful competitor for magento and if he can to wordpress and joomla also





—

Valentin

Great idea… some parts are CMS or can be defined as being CMS, some not…



As a non-developer - I find it quite tricky to integrate code and plugins and there is almost a non-written dependency of having a PHP developer in close reach.



I think they should create an app store where developers can upload all their mods to a central place. Everything is hard to find in the forums and mods and changes including tips, tricks, work arounds are scatterred all over the place.



While the API will be great for devs to integrate other 3rd party applications to get more out of CS-CART - for me, I am reliant on the slow development release cycles littered with bugs which consume up to 40% of the release cycle.



There are features requested from customers from 2010 which have not even been look at yet or planned.



I wish they would align their roadmap to what their customers and shops want with a secondary focus on aligning the product to what Flow mentions growing trend of cloud integration etc…



CS-CART is a great product and shopping cart - feature releases of new features and upgrades for me are not quick enough. I know many of the devs want more stability and would rather wait another month for less bugs - I agree - but some of features on User Voice once would expect were already integrated and done given all their competitors.



There just needs to be an easier way to integrate mods, plugins for an end user and I should be able to find these mods and plugins in a central place all neatly categorized.



CS-CART could release their own MODS to the same store and allow developers to do the same.

[quote]There just needs to be an easier way to integrate mods, plugins for an end user and I should be able to find these mods and plugins in a central place all neatly categorized.[/quote]

CS-Cart is very flexible and a developer can create a very good and valuable addon, is great that from v3 he become more documented

[quote]CS-CART could release their own MODS to the same store and allow developers to do the same.[/quote]

This will be a great think, developers will love cs-cart and they start to win money selling addons that will extend cs-cart functionality that i believe is a very good think for customers but i think CS-Cart Support will have more to work having 3rd party addons messing out with core code

[quote]

This will be a great think, developers will love cs-cart and they start to win money selling addons that will extend cs-cart functionality

[/quote]

Only if you like re-doing the same code over and over at each major release due to changes that add no value to customers, then yes. But unfortunately no one pays for that investment in time and energy. Good luck with that one.

I also think cs-cart is already a good CMS in nature.

[quote name='cscartrocks' timestamp='1369881070' post='162695']I also think cs-cart is already a good CMS in nature. [/quote]

Yes, indeed. It already has most of what's needed for a CMS. If at some point the development team finds the time to work on making it a full blown CMS then most of the work is already done. But for now there are more important things to take care of with the core functionality.