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CS Cart VS Interspire Shopping cart.. Rate Topic   - - - - -

 
  • moka
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 07:50 AM #21

Lots of interesting viewpoints Unregistered!





PS: I am sleeping just fine right now for the most part, not feeling alot of PCI DSS stress simply because I predict the bureacrats will realize uhhm around July 1st, that the industry is not yet ready to absorb these implementations & will "begin" to wonder how wise it would be to throw this wrench into an already seriously struggling economy. My prediction is there will be an extension, or relaxed time frame given to compliance.......but then, what if I am wrong again!


Unfortunately, it has been proven that this does not occur. We have been looking at the INSANE CPSIA laws that were poorly written and with no lead time for business to adjust.... and no one really cares. It's all about protecting the consumer.

Having said that. I just got a message from CS-cart and they are willing to consider adding cresecure in the future.

 
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:07 AM #22

LOL... I quack myself up.

Years (and I mean years) back myself, some folks at Yahoo, some folks at Onsale Inc. (defunk-dead) and uBid were at a conference. We were discussing how these lovely banks, card franchises, aggregate processors all make money comin' and goin' from consumers, merchants and then some. How little they actually CARE about consumer protection or that of online merchants... It was around the time that PayPal and others (most doa now) were breaking in... Most the processors were in severe loathing of PayPal... to think, a GERMAN bank had its hand in on it. Japanese/US interests were quite bent.

Anyways... After hours we all got together and were yackin' it up.

These companies make oodles of money off interest from consumers. They make oodles of money off of merchant account discount fee's (who EVER thought that term up ought be neutered), then there is most of the time a transaction fee, batch closing fee on and on. Then to boot if a chargeback dispute ensues one needs defend it, or not... But, either way, bank takes $25 to take the vendors money away. Account provider takes $25 to process the chargeback. If one wishes dispute it, welp... every damned time one goes back and forth to defend the dispute.... $25.

Reality is this folks.... dont let the card franchises and banks poop ya. They make money coming and going and they ALSO make money on stolen cards. They write off huge losses on that stuff.

Financial institutions dont fund those sizeable CEO and sub-demon salaries on "good luck" and "Schweet investments" that populous never see's rewards from but they do? Uh uh. They fund it on the backs of consumers, businesses, merchants and if they could find a way to make squirrel poop into gold you'd never see another squirrel.

They want us all to be NICE and NIFTY secure when in fact THEIR OWN SYSTEMS have been shnavelled into resulting in thousands, millions of peoples cards stolen, identities heisted etc. and they wish blame us poor slobs by shifting things, "We all must be more secure".

Want secure? Like I said... bunch of us were all sluggin' down some brewski's years and years back talking this over.

Here's clean(er) transactions 101:

Buyer goes online to Jim-Bob's Rattlesnake Facial Moisturizers webstore. June (our buyer) decides she's like to get some stuff. So... She places her order. Puts in her credit card or debit card. Whamo. The funds are RESERVED from her account.

The processor sends a transaction code to the bank (they already do this). June needs to log into her online banking and CONFIRM the charge OR she can actually go to an ATM machine and "enter the code". At the point confirmation occurs funds release.

Essentially there is NO REASON for ANY online merchant to be collecting credit card/debit card account data to begin with. Right? I mean, hey, would'nt we all feel a whole lot more secure as merchants and consumers knowing that NO entity who vends ANYTHING online has our card data?

Is'nt it true that in RETAIL most terminals around the globe now print receipts only showing the last 4 digits? That many are in fact not showing any card data even on a merchants terminal? Instead its XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-1234.

For BIG GUYS like Amazon-e they are connecting transaction servers right into the aggregate processors networks, 99.9% of employee's should they need look at any card data see "XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-1234".

Point all being, there is no reasons what-so-ever that a FAR FAR more "CLEAN" card transaction mechanism is not in place.... yesterday, in fact, 1000 yesterdays ago. All the technology exists to do this globally.

As with most things... we need ask ourselves, "Who oh why dont they do this? As merchants we really dont want anything to do with the actual card data, we're interested in transacting business and when it comes to BOTH the consumers security and in fact MY OWN BUSINESSES security I'd really prefer that be in the hands of eggspurts... errr... experts.".

The reason as I pointed out is that THEY MAKE MONEY COMING AND GOING.

Years back we caught a guy in Mexico making his own cards. Bought some stuff from us. Not a real smart fella. Came in one day, bought like $30 of stuff, next day, $100, next day another hundred. We had'nt even shipped his first order yet saw, three transactions, three different cards... things that make you go "hmmm".

So we call our account provider, Card Service International (ooo... la la). Response... We think you should refund the charges and not ship as if the cards are stolen or being manufactured you will end up with chargebacks.

"Flippin' Skippy!". What do I look like I just fell off the wax-bean truck?

They did NOT WANT A SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION. Not who he was (or at least saying who he was), not the ship address, not the IP address... nuthin'.

Essentially... they did not care.

Why? Because they make money either way.

Now that governments are forcing these creatures to be more HONEST with consumers they need find a way to make more money and SCAPEGOAT things.

Most folks in International governments do not understand technology any more than the other 99% of folks in the world. Atop that palms are greased and rear-ends leased.

When in fact all that is REALLY needed is for consumers to transact with their bank or card processor direct. No reason at all for me, you, them to even have peoples card data.

WHAT? HUH? But that cant be done!!!!! It'd be enormous, a huge task! Cost us all more!

Really?

Is'nt this essentially EXACTLY what PayPal does?

Clearly they are successful at it.

You can transact business via paypal through numerous venues, eBay, your eStore on and on right?

But banks? Card Processors? Merchant account providers etc. dont know this?

Of course they do.

But, they dont like it. They dont like it because it can:

1. Cut a WHOLE LOT of FAT off current mechanisms. After all, if I only need deal with "Card Service International" as my DIRECT "PayPal" (if you will) what the hell happens to all the sloths that resell their services?

2. You mean.... We? The Card Processor are going to actually be accountable in things like security? Transaction errors? All that stuff you poor slob merchants deal with?... You'r kiddin' right?

3. What in hell's half-acre will we the card processors and banks do to not be held responsible for what we do? Or dont? Or do?

4. How are we going to be able to continue to rape merchants and consumers not to mention those losses due to security we currently like to post, tout', and blame others for? This sounds like Babylon Banking style.

-----

Anyways... ya'll get the idea.

This is simply a run of more BS from these cronies.

Remember CVC codes? That was a biggie. "Its to prevent card fraud". Hmmm, someone steals my card, there sits the CVC on the card! Brilliant! Its just sheer friggin' genious!

Does card theft happen due to insecure eCommerce sites? Sure. Not anywhere near what they'd have you believe. Stolen mail is more prominent or at least used to be. But hey, you dont have MILLIONS of cards "maybe" stolen like the con's at First Data and others have said, "Ummm... maybe it happened". Again, BRILLIANT!

So they cant tell if they had millions of cards at risk but can tell your 500?

IF they REALLY WANT SECURE transactions its really not too awful difficult. PayPal does it already.

What about stolen email addresses? That so-called "Fishin".

Sure, fishing will happen... But then again, we can even get MORE advanced cant we? We can have like an email address with the card processor that is nothing but again a "handshake" mechanism. Its not for discussing ice cream flavors.

I must login to my card processor, press a link in the email which confirms an order. Consumer must go into their email at their bank and confirm by clicking a link then typing in a PIN, transaction ID whatall.... Its not anywhere near as hard as flying to the moon.

Take alot of *ALLS for a card thief to go up to an ATM and type in a confirmation code. Pretty "Riskay" or login unto HSBC or Chase who can in fact filter by general IP ranges. "Gee... this IP is in China, not US IP.... maybe we should ask a security question? What was your mothers maiden name when she was a virgin?".

Anyways... I could go on. Point being they dont want to create something that really can work well and put responsibility where it should be. Instead they'd rather find a way to flease rape and pillage. To continue their ways while claiming, "See we are being proactive".

They are zits. They need be popped.

I would suggest EVERY merchant actually ENCOURAGE people to use PayPal or Google Pay or Amazon Payments. At least with THESE we all know, we dont have card data. Yippie!

If enough merchants online all over the world decided to go, "Know what... we dont want hold cart data... So instead we are going to actively encourage our customers to transact safe via PayPal, Google, Amazon Pay etc" you would see in a period of 30 days or less your banks and aggregate processors going, "WTF happened?" and they would have a PayPal :) thus putting the security in the hands where it should be, even if they cant handle it sure solves a hairball for all us merchants.

 
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:16 AM #23

Unfortunately, it has been proven that this does not occur. We have been looking at the INSANE CPSIA laws that were poorly written and with no lead time for business to adjust.... and no one really cares. It's all about protecting the consumer.

Having said that. I just got a message from CS-cart and they are willing to consider adding cresecure in the future.


Its about shifting blame. Card franchises, banks, aggregate processors could care less about whats good for the consumer. Governments know this, banks know this... consumers know this.

Its simply loads of red tape and **** putting accountability on vendors putting oweness on vendors when in fact as I said in my last post.... There is no reason for any online merchant to have access to consumer card data.

Its not like we all sit up at night adding up the 16 digits on the cards and playing the lottery based on the resultant data.

Instead we need to worry. Did CS or Magento or this one or that one properly secure our respective booty's?

The charmed places are those that create the POS software like IC Verify, PC Charge etc. "Oh Boy! A new edition! Lets see... That equates to another $500 here and $800 there.... Yee ha!. Maybe this time we can afford to have our rice-krispies bronzed!".

As I pointed out, in todays world a FAR FAR better security/transaction mechanism can exist, does exist in fact but they want no part of it. They want no part of it because the interests are not that of security, yours, mine, theirs... its all about make more money and scapegoat responsibilities.

Politicians around the globe all understand the universal language of money. Thats why at night when they roll over right they see a banker in their dreams, they roll over left they see a lawyer, underneath gettin' screwed, thats the rest of us. :)

 
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 08:35 AM #24

Lots of interesting viewpoints Unregistered!



I fully agree, it takes revenue to stay on the cutting edge, and a prime example is the cost of PCI DSS certification! I have not even strongly considered an open source, "free" shopping cart program for several years now, simply because it takes revenue to continue sound development. Sure, open source developers will create this mod & that mod, and then, they eventially realize they also need money to buy groceries, or simply get tired of working for free, and the mod is no longer maintained. This is ok for startup businesses on a tight budget, however, I need to know the cart that our business piggybacks on has some financial backing.

I do believe CS-Cart could raise their price point even "after the fact" if handled correctly, in fact they could use the cost of PCI DSS certification (of which I have heard was in the $20K range) to their advantage right this minute! (And as you know Unregistered, it is all about the "presentation" & timing.) How many CS-Cart users / supporters would be willing to help offset these costs right now in exchange for some comfort in knowing we will indeed be able to get a good nights sleep prior to mid July? ;)

PS: I am sleeping just fine right now for the most part, not feeling alot of PCI DSS stress simply because I predict the bureacrats will realize uhhm around July 1st, that the industry is not yet ready to absorb these implementations & will "begin" to wonder how wise it would be to throw this wrench into an already seriously struggling economy. My prediction is there will be an extension, or relaxed time frame given to compliance.......but then, what if I am wrong again!


There's alternatives... encourage techo-dweebs like myself to start writing code/applications for CS-Cart. Those addon's, templates, applications get sold at CS-Carts site, no hunting needed. Its all here. CS draws a commission on all sales and uses that to supplement development, give out some raises, whatall.

Get some of the "in the know" folks to start creating a competitive advantage for CS and these 3rd party developers. Huh?

Like, "How to SEO"... like "How to Market"... like "How to make money attracting advertisers to your site"... like, "Proper product presentation", like... "Effective upsell, cross-sell etc" .... like, "How to affiliate" .... like, "When is it a good time to expand?"... like... "What are natural extensions to my product line" .... like... "this and like that".

Hmmm.... Like, "Can we make a CS-Marketplace" where via Remote Procedures Code have me sell my stuff on your site and your stuff can appear on my site? or CS-Auctions where we can all integrate an auction venue into all of our sites....

Really the possibilities are endless.

But gotta start somewhere if these "things" be they addon's, applications, learning, mutually beneficial relationships for CS, Developers and merchants are what everyone wants.

As I said, Web 3.0 is tickin' away and alot of the big boys goals in Web 3.0 are to do away with smaller merchants... Wrong words... sorry. Not do away with. To give them NO options EXCEPT those the big boys provide.

Now we are perfectly willing to jump in and I am sure many other developers, template designers on and on would as well. But in order to start getting there the folks at CS need to say, "Ok, lets talk amongst the public here"... Talk about what its going to take to setup a developers marketplace, terms etc. Get some blogs setup so merchants can start exchanging knowledge towards success.

Create what many many "Cart developers" just dont do. That is to say provide an interactive informational mechanism by which vendors new and old can learn, grow, succeed.

 
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 11:11 AM #25

Moka,
I think cre secure is interesting, but it is pricey. There is the cre secure costs AND you still need a gateway like Authorize.net, with its own costs. It could make sense if you are paying for daily/monthly scans and were able to stop. It's just one solution in the mix.
Bob

 
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 03:03 PM #26

Unregistered - I wonder how you've used these carts - as a developer or do you actually have a store that is doing a lot of business?

The only difference I saw in Interspire and CS-Cart is that Interspire costs a lot more. I have the multi-vendor cart and many features didn't even work correctly once I went live. If I wanted to wait around for those things to get fixed, I would have had to pay thousands of dollars to upgrade. Charging people extra $$ just because they are willing to pay doesn't make it more robust. :confused: I would happily pay that much for a cart if it meant the cart WAS robust and I wouldn't have to worry about everything working smoothly. I have had fewer headaches with CS-Cart and it costs much less. I agree that CS-Cart is underpriced.
CS-Cart 2.1.3 | Selling downloads
I recommend Newsletter Integration with Mailchimp

 
  • moka
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Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:28 PM #27

Moka,
I think cre secure is interesting, but it is pricey. There is the cre secure costs AND you still need a gateway like Authorize.net, with its own costs. It could make sense if you are paying for daily/monthly scans and were able to stop. It's just one solution in the mix.
Bob


Well, if you look at the math, you are looking at $20 a month, so $240 a year if you have under 250 transactions per month. After that it is $.10 per transaction. Let's say you did 500 transactions a month. It would be $540 a year. The scans that I have seen are about $250 per quarter, so $1000 a year. We already pay merchant account and gateway fees, so that isn't an added cost for us. To charge cards you would have to have a gateway anyway because storing credit card numbers to manually process would make it much more difficult to pass pci compliance. As for paypal, only about 10% of our customers use that option.

So to avoid headaches and fees, I think for us cresecure would be the option to go with.

 
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Posted 08 May 2010 - 11:38 PM #28

Hi
Is the license fee one-off, i dont have to pay every month unless i want to subscribe your service ? Thank you


Comparsion Interspire vs. CS-Cart

Starter Edition $295 ------------------- CS-Cart $217 - $265

Interspire --------------------------------------- CS-Cart

100 products -------------------------------------- unlimited
Staff logins 2 -------------------------------------- unlimited
Custom Form Fields=NO ------------------- Custom Form Fields=YES
Order Messaging System=NO ------------ Order Messaging System=YES
Sync to Quickbooks=NO ------------------- Sync to Quickbooks=YES
WebMail=NO ------------------------------------ WebMail=YES
Order Notifications via SMS=NO --------- Order Notifications via SMS=YES
Inventory Control=NO ------------------------- Inventory Control=YES
Bulk Product Editing=NO ------------------- Bulk Product Editing=YES
Export Customers (CSV/XML)=NO ------ Export Customers (CSV)=YES
Customer Groups=NO ----------------------- Customer Groups=YES
Discount Rules=NO -------------------------- Discount Rules=YES
Gift Certificates=NO -------------------------- Gift Certificates=YES
Staff Action Logging=NO ------------------- Staff Action Logging=YES
Custom Export Templates=YES --------- Custom Export Templates=NO
Gift Certificate Views=NO ----------------- Gift Certificate Views=YES
Customer Address Verification=YES - Customer Address Verification=NO

Functions that are not available in the $295 version are available ONLY in the $1,795 version and not in the middle version for $995.

The CS-Cart is equal or better as the Interspire Professional Edition for $995 (e.g. max. 5000 products in Interspire Professional Edition).

There are maybe available functions of CS-Cart which Interpire doesn't have.

Try to make a reverse comparsion.