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We purchased CS-CART only to receive an legal threat Rate Topic   - - - - -

 
  • gmee
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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:54 PM #21

So, even the GURUs and EXPERTs don't agree?

We operate one shop, one installation, one database, one server, one IP address, one invoice number, one identical list of about 400 products, one shipper, one credit card merchant.

We simply allow affiliates a way to give us a front landing JPEG image of our single shop that we run and maintain.

 
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Posted 22 July 2009 - 02:08 PM #22

Hello,

My name is Andrew Nechaev, I am the license manager with CS-Cart.

I would like to clarify the situation with the licenses for CS-Cart installations.

According to CS-Cart Software License Agreement one CS-Cart license grants the right to have one CS-Cart installation only on the licensed domain (website). One installation is a shop having the same look and feel and using the same database of products/customers/whatever. It means that our customers can have several URLs referring to the same shop, but they are not allowed to run more than one shop having one license. If a customer need to run several shops it is necessary to purchase appropriate number of licenses.

In the thread author's case is different. There are two webstores, which are installed on one server and have same products. BUT, these two websites differ in design and functionality. In other words, we can see two separate CS-Cart installations and only one license which is restricted by the CS-Cart Software License Agreement that all our customers accept before purchasing the initial license.

I hope this explains the situation.

Thank you.
Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Koruhov
License Manager

 
  • gmee
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 02:27 AM #23

Hello,

My name is Andrew Nechaev, I am the license manager with CS-Cart.

I would like to clarify the situation with the licenses for CS-Cart installations.

According to CS-Cart Software License Agreement one CS-Cart license grants the right to have one CS-Cart installation only on the licensed domain (website). One installation is a shop having the same look and feel and using the same database of products/customers/whatever. It means that our customers can have several URLs referring to the same shop, but they are not allowed to run more than one shop having one license. If a customer need to run several shops it is necessary to purchase appropriate number of licenses.

In the thread author's case is different. There are two webstores, which are installed on one server and have same products. BUT, these two websites differ in design and functionality. In other words, we can see two separate CS-Cart installations and only one license which is restricted by the CS-Cart Software License Agreement that all our customers accept before purchasing the initial license.

I hope this explains the situation.

Thank you.


It does not explain it at all.

We have ONE installation of CS-CART on one server, one ip, one install directory.

www.hulakula.org - wholesaler entrance
www.laadeedah.com - retail entrance

The only difference is that some customers can login as a wholesaler to get lower prices. The same way in which different shipping locations have different prices. We added a field to the user database to let admins toggle some user accounts to wholesaler status. That is the only change. Both login to the exact same shop, the same single database, the same install directory, the same products, the same categories, the same checkout, the same billing/shipping, the same invoice numbers, the same layout, the same

Browse the footer of the entrance page, the categories, products etc.

We do NOT run more than one shop.

So are your customers not allowed to modify the PHP code? Are we not allowed to add a field to the user table?

What if we setup a subdomain such as wholesale.laadeedah.com - to allow wholesalers to login to the same shop? Does this constitute a domain or a subdomain?

I would understand if we had shops offering different products, or two installations, or differences in products, but we do not.

We have offered to let your tech staff to look at our server, with no response.

Your statement of "One installation is a shop having the same look and feel and using the same database of products/customers/whatever." is duly noted.

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 03:06 AM #24

It does not explain it at all.

We have ONE installation of CS-CART on one server, one ip, one install directory.

www.hulakula.org - wholesaler entrance
www.laadeedah.com - retail entrance
....

How is the required option mod done? Do you mind to share it with us?
PM me for custom project

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 06:53 AM #25

It does not explain it at all.

We have ONE installation of CS-CART on one server, one ip, one install directory.

www.hulakula.org - wholesaler entrance
www.laadeedah.com - retail entrance


This is not one webstore. These are two separate installations (one for wholesalers and one for retailers).

The only difference is that some customers can login as a wholesaler to get lower prices. The same way in which different shipping locations have different prices. We added a field to the user database to let admins toggle some user accounts to wholesaler status. That is the only change. Both login to the exact same shop, the same single database, the same install directory, the same products, the same categories, the same checkout, the same billing/shipping, the same invoice numbers, the same layout, the same

Browse the footer of the entrance page, the categories, products etc.


The fact that you have one database for two webstores does not mean that you have one webstore. These are two different CS-Cart installations as they are different in design and functionality. Thus, they are not aliases.

So are your customers not allowed to modify the PHP code? Are we not allowed to add a field to the user table?


Our customers are allowed to modify the PHP code in their licensed CS-Cart installations. In your case, one the installations is unlicensed.

What if we setup a subdomain such as wholesale.laadeedah.com - to allow wholesalers to login to the same shop? Does this constitute a domain or a subdomain?


You need two separate licenses for two CS-Cart installations.

I would understand if we had shops offering different products, or two installations, or differences in products, but we do not.


Your websores are not identical. They are different regardless to the fact that the products are the same.

We have offered to let your tech staff to look at our server, with no response.


We know that your webstores are located on one server. BUT they are not aliases as their look-and-feel is different.

Thus, as I have already mentioned, we consider your webstores to be two separate CS-Cart installations. They have different design and different functionality and are not aliases. According to our rules, it is required to purchase an additional license for one of these installations. In case you consider our rules to be inadmissible, please, cease using CS-Cart (we will refund your money and disable your existing license). We rely on your understanding and hope that you will follow the CS-Cart License Agreement that you have accepted.

Thank you.
Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Koruhov
License Manager

 
  • gmee
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:28 AM #26

We've passed this to our lawyers.

It seems anyone with 1000 affiliates would be required to pay 1000 times for your software.

We operate one shop, one database, in one directory of installation.

Please forward us the legal contact at your company.

 
  • joe
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:32 AM #27

We've passed this to our lawyers.

It seems ...

How about my question?
PM me for custom project

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:42 AM #28

I'm not sure you have a case here gmee? From what I understand is that you are using CS-Cart under a domain name that it has not been licensed to.

I'm also not sure why this is being made "a mountain out of a mole hill"? There are other options and the main one that comes to mind is utilizing the membership within the cart under one domain name. The second, as you mentioned previously, is to put it in a subdomain under the licensed domain. It's all about the licensed domain.

CS is a very good cart and they are only protecting their product.

Just my cent worth.

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:43 AM #29

What about admin backends? You have one or two?

I cannot understand how such configuration is possible with one installation.

It does not explain it at all.

We have ONE installation of CS-CART on one server, one ip, one install directory.

www.hulakula.org - wholesaler entrance
www.laadeedah.com - retail entrance

The only difference is that some customers can login as a wholesaler to get lower prices. The same way in which different shipping locations have different prices. We added a field to the user database to let admins toggle some user accounts to wholesaler status. That is the only change. Both login to the exact same shop, the same single database, the same install directory, the same products, the same categories, the same checkout, the same billing/shipping, the same invoice numbers, the same layout, the same

Browse the footer of the entrance page, the categories, products etc.

We do NOT run more than one shop.

So are your customers not allowed to modify the PHP code? Are we not allowed to add a field to the user table?

What if we setup a subdomain such as wholesale.laadeedah.com - to allow wholesalers to login to the same shop? Does this constitute a domain or a subdomain?

I would understand if we had shops offering different products, or two installations, or differences in products, but we do not.

We have offered to let your tech staff to look at our server, with no response.

Your statement of "One installation is a shop having the same look and feel and using the same database of products/customers/whatever." is duly noted.



 
  • gmee
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:49 AM #30

What about admin backends? You have one or two?

I cannot understand how such configuration is possible with one installation.


...because we modified the php

We have ONE admin, ONE admin backend, ONE install directory, ONE shipping module etc, ONE set of products, ONE set of categories.

 
  • Darius
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:51 AM #31

If in this store is just one place to enter single license number how can someone be charged for two :)

Hello,

My name is Andrew Nechaev, I am the license manager with CS-Cart.

I would like to clarify the situation with the licenses for CS-Cart installations.

According to CS-Cart Software License Agreement one CS-Cart license grants the right to have one CS-Cart installation only on the licensed domain (website). One installation is a shop having the same look and feel and using the same database of products/customers/whatever. It means that our customers can have several URLs referring to the same shop, but they are not allowed to run more than one shop having one license. If a customer need to run several shops it is necessary to purchase appropriate number of licenses.

In the thread author's case is different. There are two webstores, which are installed on one server and have same products. BUT, these two websites differ in design and functionality. In other words, we can see two separate CS-Cart installations and only one license which is restricted by the CS-Cart Software License Agreement that all our customers accept before purchasing the initial license.

I hope this explains the situation.

Thank you.



 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:53 AM #32

...because we modified the php

We have ONE admin, ONE admin backend, ONE install directory, ONE shipping module etc, ONE set of products, ONE set of categories.


I still get a feeling that you somehow combined two shops in to using one db and admin panel in some smart way :)


Are you on a dedicated server ?

As I understand you have two virtual hosts and one of them redirects to main one with some parameters that shows different store front parameters?

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:57 AM #33

Here is few more shops

http://themaidstore.com/

http://www.birchplaceshop.com

how many you got ? :D

 
  • gmee
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 11:10 AM #34

I still get a feeling that you somehow combined two shops in to using one db and admin panel in some smart way :)


Are you on a dedicated server ?

As I understand you have two virtual hosts and one of them redirects to main one with some parameters that shows different store front parameters?



No, its ONE shop. ONE installation in one directory.

The modification we made to the user table was to add a USER TYPE - so we can mark customers and end user customers or wholesalers (larger sales at lower prices).

The whole product range, layout, CSS. basket, cart, etc is EXACTLY THE SAME because its the same shop from the same DB, from the same install directory.

For example you can register on one domain name, and still login via the other.

If an end user orders a product their order number may be 1201, and if a wholesaler orders a minute later, his order number would be 1202 - why? Because its the exact same shop/codebbase.

We wanted a way to give affiliates to promote our shop with their own name which simply goes to our shop and changes 1 logo, instead of them having to give end users a .com domain name with ?affiliate=id etc on it.

If CS-cart offered another license for those who install in one place but allow the kind of shop features we require as a manufacturer, that would be great.

But cs-cart has already said to us that 1 installation of cscart = 1 license. The cs-cart software is installed ONCE. 2 versions of cs-cart does not exist on our dedicated server. If cs-cart fix a bug etc, we would put the updated file in one directory on our server, not 2 or more.

If we have 1,000 affiliates (none of whom do anything apart from send us a hit - they do not ship, bill, stock or host anything) - do we have to pay CS-cart 1,000 x $275 for affiliates to link to us?

Imagine 3 domain names - one for US customers, one for EURO customers and once for UK customers - setting the default currency as it goes into the one single shop - would this require 3 licenses or 1?

Maybe cs-cart could offer a higher license fee for doing what we are doing?

The license agreement states:

>>The Software may be used on one website/computer owned by you.

>>You are not authorized to install more than one copy of the Software on the website available on the Internet.

>>A valid license must be purchased for each domain on which the Software is installed and for each additional installation on the same domain.

The above we comply with. We have not installed an additional installation. We run 1 version of CS-cart not 2.

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 11:23 AM #35

No, its ONE shop. ONE installation in one directory.

>>The Software may be used on one website/computer owned by you.

>>You are not authorized to install more than one copy of the Software on the website available on the Internet.

>>A valid license must be purchased for each domain on which the Software is installed and for each additional installation on the same domain.


"owned by you" I believe that in your case other people are making profit from software they never purchased.

In Lithuania there is just one major importer of computer equipment, every online store has coded its way so it looks different but they use same db.

So say 1000 people are selling things, making profit with software they never purchased just one poor admin purchased single license ?


Normally large shops like yours build their own custom shops not from carts like cs-cart.

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 11:31 AM #36

So if I send a question via contact us or any contact email one responding to them and shipping items will be you with same return address ? Other people out side of your company are not involved ?


No, its ONE shop. ONE installation in one directory.

The modification we made to the user table was to add a USER TYPE - so we can mark customers and end user customers or wholesalers (larger sales at lower prices).

The whole product range, layout, CSS. basket, cart, etc is EXACTLY THE SAME because its the same shop from the same DB, from the same install directory.

For example you can register on one domain name, and still login via the other.

If an end user orders a product their order number may be 1201, and if a wholesaler orders a minute later, his order number would be 1202 - why? Because its the exact same shop/codebbase.

We wanted a way to give affiliates to promote our shop with their own name which simply goes to our shop and changes 1 logo, instead of them having to give end users a .com domain name with ?affiliate=id etc on it.

If CS-cart offered another license for those who install in one place but allow the kind of shop features we require as a manufacturer, that would be great.

But cs-cart has already said to us that 1 installation of cscart = 1 license. The cs-cart software is installed ONCE. 2 versions of cs-cart does not exist on our dedicated server. If cs-cart fix a bug etc, we would put the updated file in one directory on our server, not 2 or more.

If we have 1,000 affiliates (none of whom do anything apart from send us a hit - they do not ship, bill, stock or host anything) - do we have to pay CS-cart 1,000 x $275 for affiliates to link to us?

Imagine 3 domain names - one for US customers, one for EURO customers and once for UK customers - setting the default currency as it goes into the one single shop - would this require 3 licenses or 1?

Maybe cs-cart could offer a higher license fee for doing what we are doing?

The license agreement states:

>>The Software may be used on one website/computer owned by you.

>>You are not authorized to install more than one copy of the Software on the website available on the Internet.

>>A valid license must be purchased for each domain on which the Software is installed and for each additional installation on the same domain.

The above we comply with. We have not installed an additional installation. We run 1 version of CS-cart not 2.



 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 12:29 PM #37

It's easy to implement. Of course you need time to code this. You make 2 working skins areas modifing handling of default directories then configure webserver to distribute requests from different domains to different skins. I'm not sure of apache, but iis makes it easy.

here is just the trick with terms of license. but i dont see and problems here. you can register the second domain as alias domain, that's it.

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 12:43 PM #38

We've passed this to our lawyers.

It seems anyone with 1000 affiliates would be required to pay 1000 times for your software.

We operate one shop, one database, in one directory of installation.

Please forward us the legal contact at your company.


Thank you for your reply.

You can contact me, Andrew Nechaev, for all the questions concerning the license issue. I suggest that we should close this thread in the Community Forums and continue our communication regarding this problem in your Help Desk account.

Thank you.

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 12:45 PM #39

We've passed this to our lawyers.

It seems anyone with 1000 affiliates would be required to pay 1000 times for your software.

We operate one shop, one database, in one directory of installation.

Please forward us the legal contact at your company.


Thank you for your reply.

You can contact me, Andrew Nechaev, for all the questions concerning the license issue. I suggest that we should close this thread in the Community Forums and continue our communication regarding this problem in your Help Desk account.

Thank you.
Sincerely yours,
Mikhail Koruhov
License Manager

 
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Posted 23 July 2009 - 02:40 PM #40

gmee, I just got reply from @license@ that you aggreed that you break license agreement. Please reply if it's true or not, because we are implementing the same structure like you. Thanks!