I have recently ran in to an interesting situation with Thomas @ REMOVED. I have purchased off them before with no problems, but this time when I purchased using Paypal he wanted additional information to “complete the transaction.” Here is his automated email he sent after I bought an item for $39…
[quote]Please send us:
Your full name registered on PayPal.
Please confirm:
You are the holder of REMOVED PayPal account.
The payment was made with your authorization.
Also forward us the confirmation email received from Paypal regarding this payment. [/quote]I am confused as to why he would want to harass his customers with needing this additional information when…
He already knows the domain name when I check out
I have an account with him and have ordered before
It means nothing anyway because Paypal says they are always going to side with the vendor on “virtual” product.
If he is that afraid of selling on the internet with Paypal then he should stop using it. I do know I will NEVER buy “software” on the internet with Paypal again.
When I received the email asking for all the extra information it irritated me big time. So I filed a complaint with Paypal as his harassing methods didn’t seem like something Paypal would want either. After Paypal sat on the situation for 30 days they finally sent back an email stating that…
[quote]PayPal was not able to resolve this case because the item in question was
virtual or intangible. We are not able to adequately investigate payments
for intangible items, services, licenses, or other digital content. Because
of this, PayPal has not taken any action at this time.[/quote]The problem is I have never received the product nor have I been given back my money. So I called Paypal to verify that I had never received the product and they told me that “there was no way I could prove it and they always side with the seller.”
So my experience with Thomas on this one has been very bad. Not only have I still never received the product I paid for, but he has his money and will not reply to emails. I have purchased from them before and did not run in to this strange method and received my products fine.
I’m not so sure I would say that Thomas or Webgraphics is bad, I would say that Thomas needs to change his policies and stop harassing customers by asking for un-needed information.
I would also have to give them a bad review at this point not only because of the way they harass a customer who pays via Paypal but also because they have my money and I still do not have the product.
I will not take any sides right now and I will give Thomas a few days to deliver the product to you, however I’ll have a talk with ET and CS on this matter because if the product is not delivered within a few days he will most likely will be permanently banned from the forums ect…
I wont choose sides but for me its basically, either you get the product or a refund, whatever you guys decide. But taking money and avoiding a refund or a product delivery is what I would classify as Theft. That wont be tolerated.
Thomas will have his chance to respond and give his side.
Sometimes in the life we meet interesting persons…
dear Clips,
forget to post your nice response to our payment verification:
[html]
What in the world is all this garbage??? You want my “full name” registered on Paypal? You want me to send you the “confirmation email received from Paypal”? WHAT?
I will be honest with you. I have done a TON of business online and have bought a TON of stuff on the internet! I have NEVER been harassed with an email like this and I am SHOCKED that you would do this.
I am actually going to file a complaint with Paypal as this is CLEARLY harassment and I believe you are going against Paypal policy. Not to mention I have bought off you before.
Please just cancel this order. You guys really need to go back to school on selling junk on the internet.
Thanks,
Jim
[/html]and my response:
[html]
Hi Jim,
Thank you for the informative email.
The requested data are necessary to protect you, our valued customers, from credit card fraud and the email was generated automatically by the antifraud system.
We respect your decision and maybe we will go back into the school as you have suggested.
Until the arrival of the requested data and until the withdrawal of the dispute on Paypal your order will be in hold.
I guess you calmed down, have a nice day.
[/html]We do not received other email from you, but I will check the junk emails, if are not deleted automatically.
So we don’t have deleted your order as you requested, we are waiting for your response.
Removed by request - here were some fraudulent payment examples… Paypal exploit !
Than my question is:
after a lot of fraudulent payments who don’t request a payment confirmation? to protect the valued customers.
ETInteractive
You have right,
“taking money and avoiding a refund or a product delivery is what I would classify as Theft” and deliver the product and than getting wire fraud is THEFT too, right?
WOW… Everyone really needs to take a deep breath & think for a moment before jumping to conclusions & making split second reactions & threats!
Clips, by you immediately cancelling your order, & filing a complaint with Paypal without 1st giving Thomas a chance to explain why he may be going “a bit overboard” on information gathering, did you really think that would solve anything??
Don’t like the tone of this forum. I think initially, the problem (dispute) should be between the two parties and not taken directly to this forum.
The only part I am curious about is Thomas’s Statement:
“email was generated automatically by the antifraud system”
What is the anitfraud system.
Don’t want to know if a response is going to continue this thread.
I would like to mention a fraud that took place. I sold a product,for about $35.00 and the customer used Paypal. I got a delivery confirmation when delivered. The person said they did not buy it. I ended up loosing the PayPal case and they took the money out of my account. There is a lot of faud taking place that can cause extreme actions to try to mitigate losses. I am sure everyone has unfortunately experienced something like this.
Product was delivered today. Issue of the product was resolved.
The issue or topic that is still open is, “to what extent will you go to see if a customer is legit?” What will you do to ‘verify’ them?
I have bought countless “digital” files and used Paypal to pay, but I have never been ask to send the name on my Paypal Account and a copy of the email Paypal sent. We do everything we can on our site to “verify” folks but to me this is over reaching boundries. I know that I do not send digital files to our customers, but I just cannot imagine asking customers to do this. In my mind I want to ask them to do as little as possible. I do everything I can “behind the scenes” to verify them, but I will not harrass a customer and ask them to send a bunch of extra stuff.
Don’t like the tone of this forum. I think initially, the problem (dispute) should be between the two parties and not taken directly to this forum.
[/QUOTE]
This was not really a dispute. As stated it was a review of my experience and that is what I was doing. Since the main category is called “Third-Party Reviews” it was more than appropriate.
In regards to being something that should have been between the 2 parties, you are correct. When it was not resolved that way I thought I should let others know there was an issue. I hope that you would do the same for me and others on the forum. If this area is really going to be an area of “Third-Party Reviews” then we should all accept that everything does not always work perfect and some things may be negative.
The positive thing is the issue of the product was resolved and Thomas delivered the product today via email/download.
[quote name=‘Struck’]WOW… Everyone really needs to take a deep breath & think for a moment before jumping to conclusions & making split second reactions & threats!
Clips, by you immediately cancelling your order, & filing a complaint with Paypal without 1st giving Thomas a chance to explain why he may be going “a bit overboard” on information gathering, did you really think that would solve anything??[/QUOTE]
Please understand, a deep breath was taken for over a month on this one. No split second reactions were made to post here. No threats were made by me either. On the forum I only gave an honest eval of my experience.
In regards to contacting Paypal. I did jump fast. I really did not know what to think. I have never been ask to send information like this. Lots of stuff was going through my head. Was I being ripped off? Why was someone asking me to send a copy of the email Paypal sent me? Why did they need to know my name when he already knew it? Why did he need to verify me when I already had an account with him? Why were they harassing me like this?
No doubt the biggest thing that went through my head was I didn’t like the tactic of this antifraud. It was intrusive and unnecessary. As you stated, it was a “bit overboard”. So I filed a complaint with Paypal. I felt that Paypal needed to know that one of their sellers using them to process payments was being intrusive and asking unnecessary questions.
I really do believe there are some good parts to his mod. I just believe he needs to tweak his approach on this email.
The good part again is this category was used properly, Thomas delivered the product and now an honest debate can continue.
The deletion of this thread was offered to me but I believe the orders, payments verification and the fraud problem is common sense. Also clips has the same opinion.
This is a good example for anyone.
[quote name=‘clips’]…
The positive thing is the issue of the product was resolved and Thomas delivered the product today via email/download.[/QUOTE]
Yes, clips contacted us and clarified “what to do” with his order.
Was not a payment confirmation, but in this case has no sense.
I have processed his order immediately, on weekend, out of our work hours.
About the harassing.
The fraud problem is not joke.
Requesting a payment confirmation maybe is harassing the customers, maybe not.
99.9% of our honest customers are responding in a few minutes and we can process the orders.
clips
Instead of confirming your payment by writing 3 lines:
[quote name=‘snorocket’]I will not take any sides right now and I will give Thomas a few days to deliver the product to you, however I’ll have a talk with ET and CS on this matter because if the product is not delivered within a few days he will most likely will be permanently banned from the forums ect…[/QUOTE]
Sorry forget to responde to this post…
Dear snorocket are you the world judge?
Learn to support the competitions.
I like your very usefull and friendly posts regarding me (maybe you are able to post less hostile things and only related with the cs-cart program).
This helps the community, yes!
Are you suitable for an objective moderator?
Will be better to post your ideas (as clips suggested) how to verify the payments. Thank you.
[quote name=‘ThomH’]Sorry forget to responde to this post…
Dear snorocket are you the world judge?
Learn to support the competitions.
I like your very usefull and friendly posts regarding me (maybe you are able to post less hostile things and only related with the cs-cart program).
This helps the community, yes!
Are you suitable for an objective moderator?
Will be better to post your ideas (as clips suggested) how to verify the payments. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t sound like Sno was trying to be the judge. It sounds like you are being a little defensive when you delayed delivering the product. You must admit that you had not delivered the product yet. It has now been several days since Paypal gave you the money. You were not replying to emails anymore. So anyone would assume you had not planned on delivering.
The good part again is you delivered, the current moderators allowed communications to continue and we can continue the conversation. Hopefully the communications can move forward towards JUST THE MOD.
when you purchased your cs-cart license, the sales manager from cs-cart called you by phone and verified your payment…
[/QUOTE]
Actually, this is probably something CS is doing more recent, but I have ran into phone calls from other virtual sellers before. If you are talking about what their processor does, I haven’t received a phone call verification from them in ages because we purchase so much online through them.
In regards to the phone call system, I do NOT see it as evasive. They do not ask me to send a copy of my Paypal email, etc. I usually just put in a password or set of numbers. This is a good suggestion to you. You could send the email to the contact on the Paypal account and have them put in the “pass code” to complete the order. If they click and put in the pass code on the page you would have an agreement that states they agree they are the one who purchased the product. I’ve seen this before too and have grown to expect it.
[quote name=‘Struck’]Can someone just close this thread, there truly is no benefit to the CS-Cart community here…it has about the same effect as reading “Spam”.
Thanks![/QUOTE]
Sorry, I disagree. This is a “review” area and we are looking at a mod. I guess if you don’t want to read it then you could just avoid clicking on it. If the admins don’t allow honest debate and looking at this or other mods then the forum looses value.
I view it more as if you guys want to argue over a whopping $35.00 transaction for days & days, then you should just email & whine to each other directly & save the rest of us the grief of being bothered by it all…
[quote name=‘Struck’]I view it more as if you guys want to argue over a whopping $35.00 transaction for days & days, then you should just email & whine to each other directly & save the rest of us the grief of being bothered by it all… ;)[/QUOTE]
It does sound like you are still stuck at the $35 transaction. We are not talking about that anymore. As stated several times, he sent the mod. We are way done with that. We have moved on.
We are now going over the details of the Paypal anit-fraud mod that he wrote for CS-Cart. I feel his mod is too evasive and should not ask a customer to send a copy of the email… what are your thoughts about that?
I was thinking about one of the comments Thomas said…
[quote name=‘ThomH’]We do not received other email from you, but I will check the junk emails, if are not deleted automatically.
[/QUOTE]
My question is, if you did not receive any of the emails I have sent for the past week, then how would you have received a copy of the email I would have sent to “verify” my order? If your spam blocker is blocking my emails then how would the way you have your anti-fraud Paypal set up work? I would not be able to email you a copy of the Paypal email, nor would I be able to confirm the name on the account. So not only would you be harassing the customer, but you wouldn’t even know that the customer “completed” the order and sent you the needed info.
Again, maybe there is a better way to “confirm” that someone owns a Paypal account. I can see sending them an email to the email on the Paypal account, but what to do after that I’m just not for sure. The most logical thing to me is to tell them to click on something to confirm the order or maybe put in a password.
