My Opinion

Hello to the community cs-cart,

today i would like to say this to the cs-cart leaders, as i do not understand how they work.

It's been a few months since I use magento and cs-cart and several other CMS, and I can guarantee you that CS-CART is great in installation, use and options compared to woocommerce or magento which is too heavy and very complicated for installation, permissions, settings and manipulations. But then, why is not cs-cart so popular? Why?
It means that you do not do things well.

The only way to enlarge the community cs-cart is to make a free community edition, as there will be more users and so more developers and then more modules, you must expand the community cs-cart. What are you waiting for?

I live in France and I guarantee that here is no French website dedicated to cs-cart, did you understand? no French site on cs-cart? it's still 300 million people frenchspoking in the world. I hope to take the reseller pack in fews months when i get more money(lol), I will make a site cs-cart france. But this is not the only case, there is also the rest of the world.

Think about it! don't wait too long.

I like CS-CART.

Nice day to all

Virgile.

My opinion;

woocommerce, it is super awesome for smaller websites. it has super huge community and anything you can imagine, you can find add-on for that. and plus, it is completely free.

magento is for small or for big, for both can be used. free and paid, 50 times bigger community then cs-cart. as well works more faster then cs-cart. also not as cs-cart, not bundled many add-on together. you have to buy one by one and find out the total result.

cs-cart is good for a bigger website(still I need test more)?. but it is slow and very expensive. but included many add-on together.

if you have a bigger project plan, maybe? cs-cart is good. but it will cost you more. of course if you have a worthy bigger project, then you can go on.

Hello,

Let me correct a few of your points as they make no sense whatsoever, I will try to stay unbiased.

Woocommerce is nothing compared to CS-Cart, it is using a 'blog CMS' as a foundation and works atrociuos in my opinion. A few of my clients have this installed and I simply can't navigate through the illogically placed menus, settings, etc. It was meant to be a blog CMS not a e-commerce system.

Magento can be used free and paid, however, if you buy Magento Enterprise your license costs will be calculated by using your revenue, which in my opinion is not fair at all. This can cause that the license costs you almost 100k. So also, not compareable with CS-Cart.

Regarding the community edition, I have been given access to security threats / exploits and they have weekly updates fixing SQL injection bugs, CSRF bugs, etc. CS-Cart has a few security flaws as well but there are definetely less on CS-Cart than there is on Magento. Furthermore, because it is open source it can more easily be exploited as everyone has access to the source code.

Furthermore, how is CS-Cart expensive? It works really fast (there are a few more optimizations that could be done) and it is very cheap and server friendly. Last time I checked Magento loading times were almost 8 seconds on big stores so I really can't find myself in the arguments made by you.

Lastly, Magento is a really good platform it just doesnt have the speed that CS-Cart has, neither does it have the lightweight construction of CS-Cart.

Best wishes,

I guess France is dominated by Prestashop? I wonder how many Russian website use Prestashop. Maybe that's part of the cause. Another cause is that out-of-the-box cs-cart simply doesn't work very well in the EU. You have to to tonloads of little changes so it works according to EU law.

Okay hereby you have some 'research'.

'If you know how to proper configure wordpress, woocommerce and plus marketplace, on the woocommerce is endless possibilities. you are talking about over 25% of ecommerce systems of internet. from your words, I can see it clearly that you did deeply dig the all systems. talking is easy, but it has to be logical and the right judgement.'

Yes I have properly configured it for many clients, it's just a complete disaster, nothing is placed in a logical position and it still remains a blog cms. A blog CMS is built for blogging, not for selling goods. Surely it can power just 25% of the entire community, but the big companies (with over 10 million in revenue) using wordpress can be counted on just one hand, which should speak for itself.

'from your words also can be understand as well, you didn't deeply did research about magento. it doesn't cost you 100k, who says that? with the community edition, and plus modules, you can do every thing. of course if you want everything included ready to use system, it will cost you more for the service. it's even more costs you on the cs-cart, or maybe not big difference. but in the end, it will be ready to use website and service. that's reason why many people don't like service, and prefers buy license and module.'

How do you even compare Community edition with Enterprise? For starters, community edition isn't even PCI compliant. Secondly, the license does cost you 100k. The pricing scheme of magento is as follows:

Magento 2 Enterprise Edition (EE)

Magento 2 Enterprise Cloud Edition (ECE)

Sales EE ECE

$0 - $1 million $22,000.00 $40,000.00

$1 - $5 million $32,000.00 $55,000.00

$5 - $10 million $49,000.00 $80,000.00

$10 - $25 million $75,000.00 $120,000.00

$25 - $50 million $125,000.00 $190,000.00

So yes, it costs you 100k. Surely you can install modules and everything but that doesnt give you a 24 / 7 Gold SLA and many more features.

and, you are completely mistaken on the hacks. what you said "SQL injection bugs, CSRF bugs", those are old hacks of internet. it was very popular in years 2002~2004. what you said is not something new or shocking things for majority users. as well you said magento is open source, then answer this question; is the cs-cart closed source? it's nothing to do with it's open source and because of open source, people use magento and cs-cart. logic is basic, the TRUST. if no TRUST, no body use it even if you give it for free. and, you are talking about security too much fast, without doing your own research....

So Magento is secure? No it is not, check out the recent exploits overhere:

https://magento.com/security/author/Magento%20Security%20Team

I quote from one of their fixes (Nov 2017) "Magento Commerce and Open Source 2.2.1, 2.1.10 and 2.0.17 contain multiple security enhancements that help close Cross-Site Scripting (XSS), Local File Inclusion (LFI), authenticated Admin user remote code execution (RCE) and Arbitrary File Delete vulnerabilities."

Also, I don't have to do my research because how often I have to hotfix these bugs is insane. This takes up at least 30 hours a month.

cs-cart is really slow. it took me 25 seconds to open the page when new install. then continuous optimization, currently less then 1 seconds. that's just 1 second and I do think it's slow. here I don't compare with slow website like you said 8 second and foolish myself and think my website is fast. but it's slow! you maybe making a money on cs-cart and like it, but what you said is not right thing. currently some ecommerce systems page opens even just 50ms or less. seems like you are trying to say something you didn't research well.

With a new install? That just means you configured the server poorly. We achieve (without any caching whatsoever) page loading times of under a second without a problem. With our full page caching this can be brought down to just 400 m/s (with a TTFB of just 20 m/s). Also, CS-Cart has programmed a solution for this as well. The page loading time can also be 400m/s by using their free Varnish implementation.

like I said before, it's included many modules and plus well organized on core, menu, mobile version. but I think this one can be much more improved. but cs-cart company doesn't give you ready improved system for the expensive price, you have to invest more money and time, and money. this is making one kind of problems for cs-cart's market share. for that reason, on this forums we have too small community.

Expensive? CS-Cart is basically the best bank-for-your-buck you can get at the moment. I really can't see your point here. CS-Cart's cost compared to it's features is extaordinary.

there are many reasons why cs-cart is not known in France. I completely agree with FLOW on above comment. as well, there are many many reason could be find if you do research.

Surely there are many reasons, there are just fewer than Magento. Yes, surely a french website would be great but why a french website when everyone around the world speaks English? Futhermore, you do not need any add-ons whatsoever to make it work in the EU. I don't get where you got this information from. I'd be great if you could tell me.

He meant that there are hardly France websites using cs-cart. Not that cs-cart needs a French website.

Concerning EU, please see this example: http://doc.prestashop.com/display/PS17/Complying+with+the+European+legislation

Otherwise let me state that I love cs-cart, have used it since 2011 with great success (in the EU!) and really appreciate you defending it.

I guess France is dominated by Prestashop? I wonder how many Russian website use Prestashop. Maybe that's part of the cause. Another cause is that out-of-the-box cs-cart simply doesn't work very well in the EU. You have to to tonloads of little changes so it works according to EU law.

One of the relatively easy things that cs-cart could do is to provide various "settings" files that can be used during install to setup proper default settings for the region the site is being installed in. I.e. have a EU, US, AUS, RUS, IND setups so that someone could choose their region of operation at install time and then the system would be pre-configured with the default settings for that region. Or it could be a series of tabs that had different setting defaults where those defaults coulld be tweaked at installation time. The goal should be as much "out of the box" configuration as it can be.

They could also do simple things like ask the user to enter the admin URL they want to use rather than having them manually change it after the install.

Hi everybody,

what i am talking about is that cs-cart (the product itself) is not known at all or so little known in the french community. It is not about a french or japanese module, it is not the point. But make known cs-cart to the french community.

This has nothing to do with prestashop or wordpress, cs-cart is not known in this environment. And it's not because there is prestashop that cs-cart can not compete and even dominate the market and the best way to make yourself known is to speak all languages. Are you thinking magento or the other are crazy making(or trying making) all community ?

cs-cart loadspeed is definitif better than magento, if not for you, then your server configuration are bad. That's all.

take a look of most used CMS in Fance for exemple:

Prestashop
WooCommerce
Magento
Oxatis
WiziShop
Shopify
Drupal commerce
OpenCart
ShopApplication
VirtueMart

Now tell me that all this crap drupal, virtuemart, opencart and other are better than cs-cart? where is CS-cart in the list? UNKNOW

For me personally i allrready used some of them but not all, and like i said cs-cart is simply amazing userfriendly

There is a big marketing problem with you guys or simply tell us you not need more clients or users or money?

eben in the English community cs-cart is not growing fast, and the only way to explose the cs-cart commnity is to habe a free community edition.

Concerning hacks or sql attaks, i'm sure that all scripts in this world can be cracked/hacked or whatever guys stop talking bullshit. There are no perfect scripts in this rotten world!!! we are human, so this point is not relative for me in this topic now.

Talking about marketing, growing the community. We are not in Wunderland, no marketing=no name this is simple logic

He meant that there are hardly France websites using cs-cart. Not that cs-cart needs a French website.

Concerning EU, please see this example: http://doc.prestashop.com/display/PS17/Complying+with+the+European+legislation

Otherwise let me state that I love cs-cart, have used it since 2011 with great success (in the EU!) and really appreciate you defending it.

Most of these changes only apply to the German law, not the entire EU.

One of the relatively easy things that cs-cart could do is to provide various "settings" files that can be used during install to setup proper default settings for the region the site is being installed in. I.e. have a EU, US, AUS, RUS, IND setups so that someone could choose their region of operation at install time and then the system would be pre-configured with the default settings for that region. Or it could be a series of tabs that had different setting defaults where those defaults coulld be tweaked at installation time. The goal should be as much "out of the box" configuration as it can be.

They could also do simple things like ask the user to enter the admin URL they want to use rather than having them manually change it after the install.

Would be great to see a feature like this for CS-Cart. It can use a number of these kinds of tweaks.

Most of these changes only apply to the German law, not the entire EU.

Yes, but if you as a Dutch shop sell to German customers, you have to abide this law.

I would never run a store on wordpress. We use it for our blog and always have problems with it. Broken plugins after updates, etc etc etc.

Cs-cart is 100 times more stable than wordpress with many plugins.

Yes, but if you as a Dutch shop sell to German customers, you have to abide this law.

No you don't :mrgreen: do that even though you must. Listen I am the certainly a big fan of CS Cart even with all of its quirks that we sometimes encounter but it is very easy to install, the basic feature set for a standard license is not much of a hurdle considered that you can rely on help and buy extra support when nescessary. And again the support is not that much either in terms of what the help desk charges you when you have issue which is originally due to a third party addon / server (mis)configuration.

I hope CS Cart will continue to improve in the coming years.

As with these special arrangements / requirements by the Germans I would say they are not extra ordinary and we do them by default not needing the pressure of bureau/technocrats working from Brussels / Berlin.

If eCommerce was never invented in the US ... eCommerce would not have existed today, I am saying that even though we sometimes must out of lively hood abide by these rules we should not give the moral standing the "technocrats" would like.

PS that is just me ranting and giving my view on these socalled "protect the customer" bullshit that EU regulators want you to implement.

At any rate thanks PW for informing us also about the myth of the "FREE" Community Edition of Magento.
I had installed both PrestoShop and Magento on my server but quickly removed both of them. The UI of CS Cart might leave something to be desired by ... wow let's not talk about Magento or Prestoshop....way worse.

PS that is just me ranting and giving my view on these socalled "protect the customer" bullshit that EU regulators want you to implement.

I couldn't agree more. But if you grow your store bigger and competitors sue you (it happens all the time), at a certain point you'll have to follow their rules.

I couldn't agree more. But if you grow your store bigger and competitors sue you (it happens all the time), at a certain point you'll have to follow their rules.

Hi,

CS-Cart doesnt require it as it doesnt set 'cookies' but just one cookie with a huge array of data. Also, if you do live in a country with very strict laws regarding the use of a cookie you can just add a very slim bottom bar as that would suffice (a pop up is not necessary for this). This was amended to the EU cookies law at 2015 / 2016 I believe, at least, that is how it works in the Netherlands.

Furthermore, if you sell to other countries in the EU the only law which applies to you is the location where your server is at. If your server is in Germany, you will have German legislation, etc.

Hi,

CS-Cart doesnt require it as it doesnt set 'cookies' but just one cookie with a huge array of data. Also, if you do live in a country with very strict laws regarding the use of a cookie you can just add a very slim bottom bar as that would suffice (a pop up is not necessary for this). This was amended to the EU cookies law at 2015 / 2016 I believe, at least, that is how it works in the Netherlands.

Furthermore, if you sell to other countries in the EU the only law which applies to you is the location where your server is at. If your server is in Germany, you will have German legislation, etc.

I wasn't talking about cookies. I was talking about lots of other things.

Server being in a different location - that's a fairy tale. If you have a German website and sell in Germany, you have to follow German rules. Wouldn't every German company otherwise simply host their website in the Netherlands or even outside the EU?

I wasn't talking about cookies. I was talking about lots of other things.

Server being in a different location - that's a fairy tale. If you have a German website and sell in Germany, you have to follow German rules. Wouldn't every German company otherwise simply host their website in the Netherlands or even outside the EU?

Not a fairy tale, it is allowed by the Dutch law. I know a guy who hosts his website in 'Switzerland' to get rid of the huge amount of taxes in the Netherlands. However, companies do not do this as it is more profitable for them to just use some weird Tax evasion trick, because the speed of the website doesnt outwage it.

What you said above is very right, and I completely agree.

from my research since a few months when I have a free time, what I learned is, on the cs-cart even small developers and users community, still some developers have on their hands many add-on that they only provide as service or product for a very expensive price, not as add-on on sale on their marketplace. it makes me thinking, is that really they don't know marketing? No, Russian people are very high cultured and smart people, but I really can't think why they do.

sometimes thinking little different, maybe they only want a big customers who will hire them for a few thousands hours work and pay a big money.

for example, on their portfolio I have seen a Turkish website, that kind of combined multivendor + ultimate together. the "incir" website, currently down. but that website script could be sell on the marketplace for affordable price, isn't? but they wait until someone hire them for another 100k.

marketing, marketing, marketing....

As an addon developer, let me try to address some of this...

There is a huge difference in creating an addon (product) that will run on all sites in all countries under the vast majority of business practices than building an addon for someone to solve a specific problem in a specific realm (custom project).

An addon developer who chooses to make a product commits all their resources up-front and is basically building a product on spec. If I put 20hrs into building an addon product @ $75/hr, how many do I have to sell just to break even ($1500 investment) and at what price. In this case, I'd price it at $150 (1/10th development cost) so I'd have to sell 10 just to get my investment back. Profit doesn't start till sale 11.

I've been here a long time (since 2009) and been building products for cs-cart ever since. I have products today that I developed in 2009 that still sell (though I've had to reinvest at major version changes). However, the demand for addon products has dropped considerably and it simply isn't worth taking the risk to invest in addon products that won't ever even break even. People will argue that if I priced it at $20 that I'd sell more and make more money. But that would mean I'd need to sell 75 to break even (unlikely).

Hence it is much easier to give someone a good value for custom development with the ability to utilize some parts of it in future projects (or where I can draw from past projects to lower the price for the customer). But this depends on how "custom" the project really is.

My experience is that everyone feels their specific needs would be in demand by 100's of other customers. The fact is that simply isn't true. Cs-cart is a very small market. I chose to specialize in cs-cart because it is very good technically, is generally stable between minor revisions (from an addon product perspective), and defects are addressed in a relatively reasonable period of time. What I'm unhappy with is that helpdesk is a complete waste of time (it takes a week to get anywhere), there is no "technical support" for developers (their docs are okay), and there is very low visibility of what's coming in future versions.

Want more addons in the marketplace? Buy more addons. Make it worth a developer's investment.

Talking about addons as a side note. Can you have too many addons in your store and if so what can you do if all these addons do deliver worth to the customer experience and or the management of your store.

I mean reading Tony's remark on buying more addons... helping the community and therefor the developers make a profit from addons and boosting the quality and overall market for CS Cart making it it interesting for developers to develop addons.

Having addons "installed" that you do not intend to use can have a very minor performance impact even when they are 'disabled'.

I think the impact is pretty low.

The main thing to consider is the quality/performance of the enabled addons. I.e. as an example something that modifies product data.... If the addon lets the system fetch a whole list of products and then comes in afterward (with a _post hook) and deletes the products is inefficient. The correct way (but way more work) is to use the hooks that alter the query parameters so the data is not fetched to begin with.

But a merchant will rarely know "how" something was implemented. They can only observe performance/behavior before and after enabling an addon. If the benefit outweighs the cost, then the merchant is happy. If not, then ask for a refund.

I can only tell you that many addons I've developed on spec (I.e. hoping there's a market for useful functionality) have fallen completely flat and I've lost significant time/$$ investment. Others sometimes break even and there are a very few that have stood the test of time and continue to sell years after they were initially developed (with updates to functionality). However, overall addon sales have fallen dramatically in the past 2 years. So when someone asks me to extend the functionality of an addon and that addon hasn't even broken even, I'm usually very reluctant to invest more time/$$ unless I can see where that investment will make a significant impact on sales.